Features of this keris.

BluErf · 24th December 2005, 11:56 PM

I don't think there is a "cutoff price" like US$50k that differentiates a high culture keris from a normal keris.

It depends on what the owner wants for the keris, which, for some lucky guy, could be US$1 because the aging owner thinks he is the best person to look after the keris for the next few decades.

I also think that a high-end keris is not necessarily a high-culture keris, because high-culture kerises implies extremely high levels of artistry which usually means it is expensive, while a high-end keris can be made from very expensive materials, but of mediocre artistry.

And as for decent to poor kerises in high-end dress, apart from those done up by unscrupulous dealers, there are instances of real royal kerises from Bugis and Malay courts, and I believe even in the Javanese courts, which have blades that are so-so. These could be the old royal regalia, or simply a keris with special meaning to the royal family. One such example is the incredible gold Bugis keris gracing the cover of Court Arts of Indonesia. The gem-encrusted gold toli-toli with the dazzling gemmed rosette disc (sorry, forgot the term for that), and the repoussed gold sheets are of the highest quality, but the blade is just a good, old tough 7-waved Bugis blade.

Heheh, this is almost going into the 'pedigree' of a high-culture keris. There are ordinary kerises who follow the fortunes of the owner and get real beautiful dresses (i.e. the noveau rich), and there are kerises who were 'born high' and dressed high from day 1 (i.e. the snooty old money rich).

nechesh · 25th December 2005, 12:30 AM

Sorry Kai Wee, i didn't mean to throw that out as a cut-off price, just trying to throw out a number which was high enough to imply that one might pay, say $10,000 for a keris and still not get a "high culture" piece, just a VERY nice (hopefully

) keris. Again, these are arbitrary figures. Personally, i would just love to be that "lucky guy" who buys such a keris for only $1 (Santa, are you listening

), but i don't really think this happens all to often. Still.....

Certainly it is true that there are some royal blades in high-end dress that could be considered mediocre. But these are not the keris that are generally presented to us collectors. What i was referring to were keris we see on the open market and especially on ebay and yes, we might consider these guys "unscrupulous dealers". It is especially common to see this done with Balinese keris as the Balinese still make very fine dress of gold, silver and gemstones which can dazzle the eye of the unsuspecting collector.
Where did you see the blade on the Sumatran keris on the cover of Court Arts? I don't recall seeing a photo of it in the book. The dress is indeed exquisite.

BluErf · 25th December 2005, 12:38 AM

Yes, the photos were not published. sorry, can't share them because they're not mine to do so... But yes, just imagine a good old tough Bugis luk 7 blade with pamor kulit semangka, ujung gunong, wengkon, and a fair bit of akhodiat; the kembang kacang worn off a bit at the end; the luks are shallow but beautiful. There are no sogokans, lis-lisan, not much greneng.

BluErf · 25th December 2005, 12:42 AM

Ok, just to put an image to the description -- this is from my collection.

The Court Arts of Indonesia Bugis blade is of the same form, but nicer all round, and in better condition.

Battara · 25th December 2005, 02:25 AM

You both bring out some good points (like the one on my head

). I thought the workmanship on the one about which I speak was good on the gold dress, the pamor was interesting, though not of high contrast.

I guess the high-culture ones you speak are the ones in the museums and the books like "Court Arts of Indonesia".

BluErf · 26th December 2005, 03:38 AM

There are a few that I know of that are in private collections. But they are the 'imperfects' - i.e. missing sheaths, replacement sheaths of lesser qualities, sheaths and hilts with the gold and gems picked off, corroded blades (oh this is the saddest part -- you could see the blade was once magnificent, but now it's eaten away here and there).

As collectors, we can only hope for the best and when 'the one' comes along, give it our best shot.

Alam Shah · 26th December 2005, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

As collectors, we can only hope for the best and when 'the one' comes along, give it our best shot.

Ditto to that, and hopefully comes unnoticed. There are many with 'hawk eyes'.

25th December 2005, 12:42 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Ok, just to put an image to the description -- this is from my collection. The Court Arts of Indonesia Bugis blade is of the same form, but nicer all round, and in better condition. Attached Images

24th December 2005, 11:56 PM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I don't think there is a "cutoff price" like US$50k that differentiates a high culture keris from a normal keris. It depends on what the owner wants for the keris, which, for some lucky guy, could be US$1 because the aging owner thinks he is the best person to look after the keris for the next few decades. I also think that a high-end keris is not necessarily a high-culture keris, because high-culture kerises implies extremely high levels of artistry which usually means it is expensive, while a high-end keris can be made from very expensive materials, but of mediocre artistry. And as for decent to poor kerises in high-end dress, apart from those done up by unscrupulous dealers, there are instances of real royal kerises from Bugis and Malay courts, and I believe even in the Javanese courts, which have blades that are so-so. These could be the old royal regalia, or simply a keris with special meaning to the royal family. One such example is the incredible gold Bugis keris gracing the cover of Court Arts of Indonesia. The gem-encrusted gold toli-toli with the dazzling gemmed rosette disc (sorry, forgot the term for that), and the repoussed gold sheets are of the highest quality, but the blade is just a good, old tough 7-waved Bugis blade. Heheh, this is almost going into the 'pedigree' of a high-culture keris. There are ordinary kerises who follow the fortunes of the owner and get real beautiful dresses (i.e. the noveau rich), and there are kerises who were 'born high' and dressed high from day 1 (i.e. the snooty old money rich).

25th December 2005, 12:30 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Sorry Kai Wee, i didn't mean to throw that out as a cut-off price, just trying to throw out a number which was high enough to imply that one might pay, say $10,000 for a keris and still not get a "high culture" piece, just a VERY nice (hopefully ) keris. Again, these are arbitrary figures. Personally, i would just love to be that "lucky guy" who buys such a keris for only $1 (Santa, are you listening ), but i don't really think this happens all to often. Still..... Certainly it is true that there are some royal blades in high-end dress that could be considered mediocre. But these are not the keris that are generally presented to us collectors. What i was referring to were keris we see on the open market and especially on ebay and yes, we might consider these guys "unscrupulous dealers". It is especially common to see this done with Balinese keris as the Balinese still make very fine dress of gold, silver and gemstones which can dazzle the eye of the unsuspecting collector. Where did you see the blade on the Sumatran keris on the cover of Court Arts? I don't recall seeing a photo of it in the book. The dress is indeed exquisite.

25th December 2005, 12:38 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Yes, the photos were not published. sorry, can't share them because they're not mine to do so... But yes, just imagine a good old tough Bugis luk 7 blade with pamor kulit semangka, ujung gunong, wengkon, and a fair bit of akhodiat; the kembang kacang worn off a bit at the end; the luks are shallow but beautiful. There are no sogokans, lis-lisan, not much greneng.

25th December 2005, 02:25 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	You both bring out some good points (like the one on my head ). I thought the workmanship on the one about which I speak was good on the gold dress, the pamor was interesting, though not of high contrast. I guess the high-culture ones you speak are the ones in the museums and the books like "Court Arts of Indonesia".

26th December 2005, 03:38 AM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	There are a few that I know of that are in private collections. But they are the 'imperfects' - i.e. missing sheaths, replacement sheaths of lesser qualities, sheaths and hilts with the gold and gems picked off, corroded blades (oh this is the saddest part -- you could see the blade was once magnificent, but now it's eaten away here and there). As collectors, we can only hope for the best and when 'the one' comes along, give it our best shot.