Another Huge Sword

wolviex · 24th December 2005, 02:23 PM

I exactly understand what you mean Ariel, and if I was collecting Persian arms I would like to buy only those best examples from Safavid period. Those from Qajar times are indeed quite poor - super perfect and high quality steel cut is replaces by not perfect etching, damasce steel by poor quality and fast getting rusty steel, the beautiful ornaments and great caligraphy by something less perfect.... but! Yes there is one but. Let me quote prof. Tadeusz Majda's words from his catalogue of "Persian Art 1779-1924":

"(...)There is no doubt that Persian art of Qajar period is marked by its times - times of riots, wars, collapse of economy, influences of European countries and European arts, not always based on best sources. But it still has its special charm, characteristic with its simplicity, and what is more important, it reflects art taste of court, townspeoples, more than during Safavids rules. (...)"

In further words, professor indicate mass production, market for European countries and America, contacts and orders from outside countries, etc., everything that changed the art and market in Persia. At the same time artists were trying to continue everything what Safavids and past generations created, so they purposely imitated patterns and art from passed centuries.

And take a look at Europe in the 19th century, where we can observe the same process - neogothic, imitates of medieval, 16th and 17th centuries weapons, very often made of poor quality metals - everything what could remind passed centuries. People of this time felt they were missing those all things that passed away. So from this piont o view all these buildings, arts and other things of this period are somehow charming too

. It's a history and like everything it's deep motivated in time and period of its origin, aswell as in people that lived then.

Regards!

ariel · 24th December 2005, 03:38 PM

Perhaps, you are right....
The 19th century was a time when swords and daggers started to lose their practical value; firearms became so efficient that the military tactics had to be revised. Cold steel became decorational and ceremonial and, as a result, became either unnecessarily ornate (Caucasian weapons) or of limited quality. Yes, there still were some fabulous blades produced and there were some "old time" exploits (The Light Brigade-type), but the writing was on the wall.
Less industrial societies lagged behind in this regard and Moro weapons, for example, were still of high standard but any army aiming to become competitive by necessity abandoned the chivalrous swordplay and concentrated on firearms.
Still, Qajar swords strike me as particularly ungainly and of exceptionally low quality and appeal. There tin-plate blades with crude etching, cheap and garish decoration and exaggerated size just scream "Phony!"

24th December 2005, 02:23 PM	#1
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	I exactly understand what you mean Ariel, and if I was collecting Persian arms I would like to buy only those best examples from Safavid period. Those from Qajar times are indeed quite poor - super perfect and high quality steel cut is replaces by not perfect etching, damasce steel by poor quality and fast getting rusty steel, the beautiful ornaments and great caligraphy by something less perfect.... but! Yes there is one but. Let me quote prof. Tadeusz Majda's words from his catalogue of "Persian Art 1779-1924": "(...)There is no doubt that Persian art of Qajar period is marked by its times - times of riots, wars, collapse of economy, influences of European countries and European arts, not always based on best sources. But it still has its special charm, characteristic with its simplicity, and what is more important, it reflects art taste of court, townspeoples, more than during Safavids rules. (...)" In further words, professor indicate mass production, market for European countries and America, contacts and orders from outside countries, etc., everything that changed the art and market in Persia. At the same time artists were trying to continue everything what Safavids and past generations created, so they purposely imitated patterns and art from passed centuries. And take a look at Europe in the 19th century, where we can observe the same process - neogothic, imitates of medieval, 16th and 17th centuries weapons, very often made of poor quality metals - everything what could remind passed centuries. People of this time felt they were missing those all things that passed away. So from this piont o view all these buildings, arts and other things of this period are somehow charming too . It's a history and like everything it's deep motivated in time and period of its origin, aswell as in people that lived then. Regards!

24th December 2005, 03:38 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Perhaps, you are right.... The 19th century was a time when swords and daggers started to lose their practical value; firearms became so efficient that the military tactics had to be revised. Cold steel became decorational and ceremonial and, as a result, became either unnecessarily ornate (Caucasian weapons) or of limited quality. Yes, there still were some fabulous blades produced and there were some "old time" exploits (The Light Brigade-type), but the writing was on the wall. Less industrial societies lagged behind in this regard and Moro weapons, for example, were still of high standard but any army aiming to become competitive by necessity abandoned the chivalrous swordplay and concentrated on firearms. Still, Qajar swords strike me as particularly ungainly and of exceptionally low quality and appeal. There tin-plate blades with crude etching, cheap and garish decoration and exaggerated size just scream "Phony!"