Tulwar broadsword??

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Jens,
Thank you so much for the response, and I agree with what you say about the diffusion of these weapons and thier elements, especially in India. I also very much like your notation on the decorative design of the hilt, which does recall the more ancient architectural designs that reflected more primitive fashioning of grips and hilts.

Rick,
I think that is outstanding thinking, and it would seem quite plausible as we have often noted that weapons diffusion may move in either direction between points of contact. Actually it has often been distinctly curious to me that with the obvious influences of certain Indian weapons in North Africa, and elsewhere for that matter, that the very recognizable tulwar hilt, to the best of my knowledge, is not found outside the Indian subcontinent.
While various Ottoman and Persian weapons are often found in the North African regions within the Muslim sphere, it seems that even in presentation or diplomatically inclined weapons,the tulwar hilt is not to be found.
I recall one sword I saw years ago with tulwar hilt and clearly a kaskara type blade much like this example, and was identified specifically as tulwar and with Indian provenance. I have also seen patas with these European blades as seen on kaskaras, even with much earlier blades, which seem to suggest that the movement of the blades to India, somehow did not encourage the movement of these hilts to Africa.
You have a very good point about the concentric circles presence in Berber motif also. This extremely ancient symbolism seems very well known within the perameters of folk religion and shamanism, and seem to exist in only slight variation in many cultures. I am unclear on the Berber versions though, do they appear typically on hilts, or blades, or both? It seems you have mentioned this Berber motif before, but I cant exactly recall the instance.

All best regards,
Jim

[RSWORD]

Hi Jim,

I have had two of those Berber swords over the years with the clipped blade style and handle with hole in the middle. On one example, the handle was covered in these circle motifs and in the other example, the scabbard had been stamped with these motifs.

As far as Tulwar hilts being found in Africa, I could understand why they may not be popular as we have had countless discussions about how do you grip one, were they made for small hands, etc etc and someone not familiar with the martial style may not have found a tulwar hilt to their liking. After giving more thought, I wonder if there was much of an Indian population in N Africa in the 19th century where perhaps an Indian working/living in N Africa decided to match up a Kaskara blade to a hilt they were more familiar with. I am glad you mentioned one other example of Tulwar hilted, Kaskara blade combo because there probably are not too many examples out there so it leaves us to hypothesize.(which I love to do and think it is part of the fun of our hobby!)

[Michael Blalock]

There was and still is a substantial Indian population along the coast of East Africa and a substantial trading colony at Aden in Yemen and at the Ethiopean port of Massawa since medievel times.

[Andy Davis]

I wonder why we have to guess!
In a culture that was well advanced enough to write and describe the activities of every day life, history and myth, I wonder why we have to speculate so much over "how the tulwar is held" or just why we have so much difficulty with identification.
It seems to be that we need a proper database, created only from items that do have a accutrate and tracable provinance. Likely to be through museums and the major private collections, from which we can then expand to theories on the other examples. I know im talking in an ideal world! I have European, military issue edged weapons, that nobody can identify either but the data available is far more precise.
Jens, thats exactly why I do have so many in my collection, the fact that I look for even the slightest variation and where my fasination remains. Actually its an addiction but I like to justify it.

By the way, I may have said this before. If anybody ever wants to consult my collection for serious research or general interest and finds their way to the North East of England, I'm always open to guests...with advanced warning etc

[Jens Nordlunde]

Andy, your collection looks impressive. I can’t by far number the same amount of tulwars as you can.
Collectors are a strange lot, they may collect the same things, or within the same area, often for very different reasons, but when it comes to the bottom line, most of the interests are the same.
From where does the weapon origin, if possible within a very narrow area, how did it develop, how old is it, what does the markings mean, why was the tulwar hilt only used in India, and why the katar – these, and a lot of other, far more complicated questions, are what collectors of Indian weapons ask themselves. The list of questions is of course much longer, as you well know, but it all comes down to, that a lot of the answers are long forgotten, and we try to seek the answers. Few of us, if any at all, will likely find the answers alone, and that is why a forum like this is a good place to start exchanging information’s. Your offer is very generous, and should I come to your part of England – I will take you up on the offer - and let you know in good time.

The Indians did indeed have trade stations form the very early times at the east coast of Africa, Zanzibar, Arabia and many other places, just like the Muslims had trade stations at the west coast of India.
I am fairly sure that I have seen the round decorations on hilts from the west coast of India – on Maplah’s(?). So this decoration, like so many others ‘travelled’ around. Jim mentioned the NW frontier, where it is also seen. For some it was only decorative, but for others it had a special meaning.