Pirate swords and weapons

ulfberth · 28th July 2015, 07:22 PM

and a workshop for pirates: how to make a cannon

Jim McDougall · 28th July 2015, 10:31 PM

WOW!!
Ulfberth, thank you!!!
What incredible grouping, and brings to mind the probably unimaginable spectrum of arms and armour which might have been present on these pirate ships. Clearly such things as the morion might not fit into the scope of famed illustrations such as those by Pyle and Wyeth, but in reality, these guys used whatever they got their hands on.

And the ship model, skull and cuphilts

Thank you again,

Jim

M ELEY · 29th July 2015, 11:00 AM

I know there is controversy with Mr. Clifford's find, but as Jim points out, this man is an expert. I refuse to believe he can't tell construction materials from an old wreck. The naysayers might convince me that it isn't the Adventure Galley, but not a pile of ordinary rubble. I suspect that the powers that be might not want Clifford or anyone else diving the wreck, so they are 'poo-pooing' it. Why? Greed, arrogance, a grudge against treasure hunters, protection of the wreck site or coast. it's not that hard to imagine. Even when Mel Fisher found the Atocha, it took him many years to claim it, as our own government tried to fleece him of it. Other countries are even stricter, as evidenced by that country (was it Spain?) that seized a treasure hunter's ship a few years back. I've got to find that article again...

Treasure is still out there to be found!
http://gma.yahoo.com/florida-sunken-...l-finance.html

Jim McDougall · 30th July 2015, 04:05 AM

Well said Mark!
What is incredible is that these 'press releases' from these large organizations are deliberately using these vague claims against his work in what appears to be certain disharmony regarding conflicting ajendas.

Mr Clifford has been diving and exploring and researching thoroughly in these locations since 2000. One of his colleagues, Ken Kinkor, is probably one of the most thorough and well informed researchers I have ever seen on these subjects. How in the world could this organization expect to pass off this idea of a lead pig!!!???

I think the thing is that because they are a large, well funded organization, they believe that their assertions will be readily accepted by the often and unfortunately less than well informed public. Most people will accept that this must be lead, because they say it is. Why in the world would someone as world renowned and well reputed as Mr. Clifford even try to pull off such a shallow ploy?

As you say, indeed there is treasure out there, at least in some degree.
What is amazing to me is reading through vintage books on maritime history, shipwrecks and piracy and how many 'lost' ships were noted and suggested would probably never be found. Over the years I saved clipping of these as they were indeed found, and placed them in the pages of those books

It will be interesting one day when others go through my books to find these 'treasures' (of the adventure kind

Rick · 30th July 2015, 06:02 AM

I'll say no more than this:
Mr. Clifford has always been a somewhat controversial figure .

As was Mr. Kidd .

Gavin Nugent · 30th July 2015, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Treasure is still out there to be found!
http://gma.yahoo.com/florida-sunken-...l-finance.html

Think seems to be broken...or maybe my IE? Here is another;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2...n-archaeology/

Gavin

Rick · 31st July 2015, 12:18 AM

There is another just to the South of this inlet .
View is looking North .
http://www.evsjupiter.com/main.htm

M ELEY · 31st July 2015, 04:15 AM

Jim, you need to write a book about all of your experiences and such! I've said that before! I, fir one, would love to see your research on the wrecks published here, at least! I think with the passing of Michael we all need to be more retrospective of what we have to offer, be it snippets of information or whole columns of knowledge. In any case, regarding Mr. Clifford, I trust in his work. His past 'controversies' involve getting past government beaurocracy red tape on diving privileges, rights to treasure finds, and gossipy/snippy behavior with some of his compatriots, but NEVER falsification of his research.

Organizations, on the other had, I don't trust. Like governments or individuals, they have hidden agendas. Whether it be museums selling off cultural treasures at private auctions or governments that claim all valuable finds of any kind must be surrendered to them for 'the good of the people', it is all BS to me...

Gav, thanks for that unbroken thread-

VANDOO · 31st July 2015, 07:35 AM

THE CORROSION ON LEAD IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THAT ON SILVER SO AT LEAST THE OUTER COATING WITH THE MARKS AND SUCH ARE SILVER. IF LEAD IS IN THE CENTER THEN PERHAPS SOMEONE STOLE THE REAL SILVER INGOT AND MADE UP THIS ONE BACK IN THE DAY. IN SUCH A CASE PERHAPS THE FAKE INGOT COULD HAVE BEEN SECRETELY THROWN OVER THE SIDE WHEN SALVAGE WAS BEING DONE BY THE THIEF OR THIEVES SO THEY WOULD NOT BE FOUND OUT. THINGS OF THIS SORT HAVE HAPPEND SO IT IS A POSSIBILITY IF INDEED THERE IS LEAD PRESENT. A TREASURE HUNTER AND SCHOLAR OF ALL THINGS PIRATE AND TREASURE WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL. SHIPWRECKS AND PIRATES AAAARGH !

28th July 2015, 07:22 PM	#1
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 428	and a workshop for pirates: how to make a cannon Attached Images

30th July 2015, 06:02 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I'll say no more than this: Mr. Clifford has always been a somewhat controversial figure . As was Mr. Kidd . Attached Images

28th July 2015, 10:31 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,292	WOW!! Ulfberth, thank you!!! What incredible grouping, and brings to mind the probably unimaginable spectrum of arms and armour which might have been present on these pirate ships. Clearly such things as the morion might not fit into the scope of famed illustrations such as those by Pyle and Wyeth, but in reality, these guys used whatever they got their hands on. And the ship model, skull and cuphilts Thank you again, Jim

29th July 2015, 11:00 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,165	I know there is controversy with Mr. Clifford's find, but as Jim points out, this man is an expert. I refuse to believe he can't tell construction materials from an old wreck. The naysayers might convince me that it isn't the Adventure Galley, but not a pile of ordinary rubble. I suspect that the powers that be might not want Clifford or anyone else diving the wreck, so they are 'poo-pooing' it. Why? Greed, arrogance, a grudge against treasure hunters, protection of the wreck site or coast. it's not that hard to imagine. Even when Mel Fisher found the Atocha, it took him many years to claim it, as our own government tried to fleece him of it. Other countries are even stricter, as evidenced by that country (was it Spain?) that seized a treasure hunter's ship a few years back. I've got to find that article again... Treasure is still out there to be found! http://gma.yahoo.com/florida-sunken-...l-finance.html

30th July 2015, 04:05 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,292	Well said Mark! What is incredible is that these 'press releases' from these large organizations are deliberately using these vague claims against his work in what appears to be certain disharmony regarding conflicting ajendas. Mr Clifford has been diving and exploring and researching thoroughly in these locations since 2000. One of his colleagues, Ken Kinkor, is probably one of the most thorough and well informed researchers I have ever seen on these subjects. How in the world could this organization expect to pass off this idea of a lead pig!!!??? I think the thing is that because they are a large, well funded organization, they believe that their assertions will be readily accepted by the often and unfortunately less than well informed public. Most people will accept that this must be lead, because they say it is. Why in the world would someone as world renowned and well reputed as Mr. Clifford even try to pull off such a shallow ploy? As you say, indeed there is treasure out there, at least in some degree. What is amazing to me is reading through vintage books on maritime history, shipwrecks and piracy and how many 'lost' ships were noted and suggested would probably never be found. Over the years I saved clipping of these as they were indeed found, and placed them in the pages of those books It will be interesting one day when others go through my books to find these 'treasures' (of the adventure kind

31st July 2015, 12:18 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	There is another just to the South of this inlet . View is looking North . http://www.evsjupiter.com/main.htm

31st July 2015, 04:15 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,165	Jim, you need to write a book about all of your experiences and such! I've said that before! I, fir one, would love to see your research on the wrecks published here, at least! I think with the passing of Michael we all need to be more retrospective of what we have to offer, be it snippets of information or whole columns of knowledge. In any case, regarding Mr. Clifford, I trust in his work. His past 'controversies' involve getting past government beaurocracy red tape on diving privileges, rights to treasure finds, and gossipy/snippy behavior with some of his compatriots, but NEVER falsification of his research. Organizations, on the other had, I don't trust. Like governments or individuals, they have hidden agendas. Whether it be museums selling off cultural treasures at private auctions or governments that claim all valuable finds of any kind must be surrendered to them for 'the good of the people', it is all BS to me... Gav, thanks for that unbroken thread-

31st July 2015, 07:35 AM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE CORROSION ON LEAD IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THAT ON SILVER SO AT LEAST THE OUTER COATING WITH THE MARKS AND SUCH ARE SILVER. IF LEAD IS IN THE CENTER THEN PERHAPS SOMEONE STOLE THE REAL SILVER INGOT AND MADE UP THIS ONE BACK IN THE DAY. IN SUCH A CASE PERHAPS THE FAKE INGOT COULD HAVE BEEN SECRETELY THROWN OVER THE SIDE WHEN SALVAGE WAS BEING DONE BY THE THIEF OR THIEVES SO THEY WOULD NOT BE FOUND OUT. THINGS OF THIS SORT HAVE HAPPEND SO IT IS A POSSIBILITY IF INDEED THERE IS LEAD PRESENT. A TREASURE HUNTER AND SCHOLAR OF ALL THINGS PIRATE AND TREASURE WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL. SHIPWRECKS AND PIRATES AAAARGH !