Pala Kilic Wootz? with European Hilt.

Norman McCormick · 14th July 2015, 08:25 PM

TWO AUSTRIAN MODEL 1850 INFANTRY OFFICER S SABRE AND AN AUSTRIAN MODEL 1861 INFANTRY OFFICER S SABRE
the first with earlier curved fuller blade inscribed Frince. (rubbed) on one side and with celestial motifs on the other regulation steel hilt fishskin-covered grip in a contemporary steel scabbard; the second with 18th century Turkish blade retaining traces of gold decoration (erased) regulation steel hilt fishskin-covered grip in a contemporary steel scabbard; and the third with earlier Hungarian broad fullered blade double-edged towards the point etched with the figure of Mary on one face and a Patriarchal cross on the other and with pious inscriptions including Maria Mater Dei Patronia Hungaria Sub tuum Pace sicium confugio [sic] regulation hilt fishskin-covered grip in a contemporary steel scabbard with two loops for suspension
the first: 73.5 cm; 29 in blade
(3)

Provenance
The Armoury of Archduke Eugen Fortress Hohenwerfen Salzburg Austria sold Anderson Galleries New York 1st - 5th March 1927 part of lot 487
JWHA Inv. Nos. 269 270 161

AN AUSTRIAN MODEL 1845 CAVALRY OFFICER S SWORD
with minor variations with curved kilig style blade formed with a reinforced back-edged etched with trophies a sun-in-splendour scrolls of foliage and celestial motifs on each face and retaining traces of early gilding regulation steel hilt pierced with two slots at the top engraved FI probably for Ferdinand I (reigned 1835-48) wire-bound fishskin-covered grip in its steel scabbard
83.5 cm; 32 7/8 in blade

Provenance
The Armoury of Archduke Eugen Fortress Hohenwerfen Salzburg Austria sold Anderson Galleries New York 1st - 5th March 1927 part of lot 487
JWHA Inv. No. 272

Kubur · 15th July 2015, 09:51 AM

Thanks Jim
About the Pandour I have something...
Best,
Kubur

Jim McDougall · 15th July 2015, 03:45 PM

Indeed you do Kubur!! Thank you for posting this!
A favorite topic of mine from research years ago .
These guys started out as essentially 'security forces' at landed estates etc. then became border guards, ultimately formed into auxiliary units for Austria around mid 18th c. Baron von Trenck was the primary developer of these units, and they (as can be seen) were extremely uh, 'exotic'.

They were reconnaissance, skirmishers and foragers for the main body of military forces who were much feared as their depredations became more out of control . This to the point that von Trenck was jailed and the units disbanded.
However, the allure of the strategic effectiveness of these forces impressed other European armies as well as remaining an ideal type of unit in the auxiliary status of Austria.

The fearsome flamboyance and colorful style of these forces of course included much the same in their weaponry. They used yataghans, a wide range of arms from many ethnic groups, and much inspired military fashions in cavalry especially for many years into the 19th c.
I have seen cavalry swords which are hybrids of yataghan blade and 18th century hirshfanger (hunting) style hilts, and other Ottoman styled arms which could be attributed to these type units.
In auction a number of years ago was a yataghan type sword attributed to von Trenck (ref: Buttin, 1933).

I think that these kinds of sabres may well be attributed to these kinds of elements which existed and inspired military fashions in a number of European armies, with Austria at the fore, recalling that this sphere was essentially the Austro-Hungarian domain .

15th July 2015, 09:51 AM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Thanks Jim About the Pandour I have something... Best, Kubur Attached Images

14th July 2015, 08:25 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	TWO AUSTRIAN MODEL 1850 INFANTRY OFFICER S SABRE AND AN AUSTRIAN MODEL 1861 INFANTRY OFFICER S SABRE the first with earlier curved fuller blade inscribed Frince. (rubbed) on one side and with celestial motifs on the other regulation steel hilt fishskin-covered grip in a contemporary steel scabbard; the second with 18th century Turkish blade retaining traces of gold decoration (erased) regulation steel hilt fishskin-covered grip in a contemporary steel scabbard; and the third with earlier Hungarian broad fullered blade double-edged towards the point etched with the figure of Mary on one face and a Patriarchal cross on the other and with pious inscriptions including Maria Mater Dei Patronia Hungaria Sub tuum Pace sicium confugio [sic] regulation hilt fishskin-covered grip in a contemporary steel scabbard with two loops for suspension the first: 73.5 cm; 29 in blade (3) Provenance The Armoury of Archduke Eugen Fortress Hohenwerfen Salzburg Austria sold Anderson Galleries New York 1st - 5th March 1927 part of lot 487 JWHA Inv. Nos. 269 270 161 AN AUSTRIAN MODEL 1845 CAVALRY OFFICER S SWORD with minor variations with curved kilig style blade formed with a reinforced back-edged etched with trophies a sun-in-splendour scrolls of foliage and celestial motifs on each face and retaining traces of early gilding regulation steel hilt pierced with two slots at the top engraved FI probably for Ferdinand I (reigned 1835-48) wire-bound fishskin-covered grip in its steel scabbard 83.5 cm; 32 7/8 in blade Provenance The Armoury of Archduke Eugen Fortress Hohenwerfen Salzburg Austria sold Anderson Galleries New York 1st - 5th March 1927 part of lot 487 JWHA Inv. No. 272

15th July 2015, 03:45 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,292	Indeed you do Kubur!! Thank you for posting this! A favorite topic of mine from research years ago . These guys started out as essentially 'security forces' at landed estates etc. then became border guards, ultimately formed into auxiliary units for Austria around mid 18th c. Baron von Trenck was the primary developer of these units, and they (as can be seen) were extremely uh, 'exotic'. They were reconnaissance, skirmishers and foragers for the main body of military forces who were much feared as their depredations became more out of control . This to the point that von Trenck was jailed and the units disbanded. However, the allure of the strategic effectiveness of these forces impressed other European armies as well as remaining an ideal type of unit in the auxiliary status of Austria. The fearsome flamboyance and colorful style of these forces of course included much the same in their weaponry. They used yataghans, a wide range of arms from many ethnic groups, and much inspired military fashions in cavalry especially for many years into the 19th c. I have seen cavalry swords which are hybrids of yataghan blade and 18th century hirshfanger (hunting) style hilts, and other Ottoman styled arms which could be attributed to these type units. In auction a number of years ago was a yataghan type sword attributed to von Trenck (ref: Buttin, 1933). I think that these kinds of sabres may well be attributed to these kinds of elements which existed and inspired military fashions in a number of European armies, with Austria at the fore, recalling that this sphere was essentially the Austro-Hungarian domain .