Tomas Aiala Cup hilt rapier.

fernando · 21st June 2015, 12:52 PM

Santiago de Palomares, author of the famous sword smiths nomina, also commissioned by King Carlos III in 1775 to create the Royal factory of swords in Toledo, left it written that, the steel that they spent in the fabrication of Toledan swords, since its beginning was that of the old factory of Modragon, unique in Spain at the time, celebrated in almost all world as rich and abounding and which swords, after some centuries, prevail today of quality so outstanding that they are appreciated by the major part of world nations for their strength, beauty and the finest temper.

Jim McDougall · 21st June 2015, 02:59 PM

Fernando, thank you so much for this exacting detail on the character of these weapons as well as the texture of their making and the atmosphere of the time. It is as always, colorfully described as you do masterfully, and makes me appreciate these all the more!!! (as if I could be any more obsessed with them!!!

Thank you,

Jim

M ELEY · 21st June 2015, 04:25 PM

Bravo, Fernando! I also wish to thank you on the dissertation of such magnificent blades! Just like Jim, I'm really taken in by these swords and their colorful history!

fernando · 21st June 2015, 04:44 PM

According to the legend, the first tempered steels were developed by mere accident in Toledo, where the Royal Armoury was located in the middle ages. Based on a mix of cruelty and servility, the royal smith had the idea to pierce a prisioner of war (probably a Moor or a sympathizer), captured in the wars against Arab domination. Needless to say that such sword had been turned red hot, to commit the symbolic act, ritual death or blood baptism, the result being overpowering; the sword has hardened or TEMPERED, using the body of a man as cooling agent of the process. Facing the discovery and after the surprise, all nobility commissioned their Toledana, upon which they ran out of slaves for the sacrifice and, by disastrous analogy and enemy despise, slaves were replaced by deer who died in the process, tempering swords, until it occurred to someone that the issue of having to kill someone or some animal for the temper of steel would be a superstition ... and so proofed by doing it with water, or oil, achieving the same results, and so it is done until now in this west side of the planet.

ulfberth · 22nd June 2015, 11:01 AM

Kind regards Ulfberth ....

fernando · 22nd June 2015, 07:35 PM

Ah ... a sword (rapier) without scabbard but with suspension belt.
Are these interestingly genuine examples ... both sword and suspender ?
Maybe (at the least) the suspender ia a replica ?
The sword looks huge ... how long is it ?

ulfberth · 22nd June 2015, 07:56 PM

Hi Fernando,

The belt was a gift and is obviously not an Original, it just ads to the scenario, like a temporary frame , a bit like the box for the pocket pistols.
I tried to duplicate the scene of the movie Alatriste, as you can see in the picture.
The Espada ropera is 122 CM long and Original in all parts.

kind regards

Ulfberth

Jim McDougall · 23rd June 2015, 02:13 AM

Magnificent rapier Ufberth!!!! and in that setting superb!!!
I had not even known on this movie, "Alatriste" but now that I do I must have it

It doesn't matter that the suspension device is not original, it looks amazing with this piece. Anyone with a true passion for these rapiers would be smitten with this grouping!
Thank you for this.

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 23rd June 2015, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Hi Fernando,
The belt was a gift and is obviously not an Original, it just ads to the scenario, like a temporary frame ,

Pardon me, i was under the impression, in the context that, the sword & belt were implements used in the quoted movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

a bit like the box for the pocket pistols.

Ah, that was just a box i had around; not meant to replicate the real thing. I wish i could find a real antique case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

I tried to duplicate the scene of the movie Alatriste, as you can see in the picture.

Movie just requested from a friend; i will have to see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

The Espada ropera is 122 CM long and Original in all parts.

So i bit 'off mark' for the period

. A splendid example indeed; when i grow up, i want one

21st June 2015, 12:52 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Toledo legends part II Santiago de Palomares, author of the famous sword smiths nomina, also commissioned by King Carlos III in 1775 to create the Royal factory of swords in Toledo, left it written that, the steel that they spent in the fabrication of Toledan swords, since its beginning was that of the old factory of Modragon, unique in Spain at the time, celebrated in almost all world as rich and abounding and which swords, after some centuries, prevail today of quality so outstanding that they are appreciated by the major part of world nations for their strength, beauty and the finest temper.

21st June 2015, 04:44 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Toledo legends part III ... dedicated to Jim According to the legend, the first tempered steels were developed by mere accident in Toledo, where the Royal Armoury was located in the middle ages. Based on a mix of cruelty and servility, the royal smith had the idea to pierce a prisioner of war (probably a Moor or a sympathizer), captured in the wars against Arab domination. Needless to say that such sword had been turned red hot, to commit the symbolic act, ritual death or blood baptism, the result being overpowering; the sword has hardened or TEMPERED, using the body of a man as cooling agent of the process. Facing the discovery and after the surprise, all nobility commissioned their Toledana, upon which they ran out of slaves for the sacrifice and, by disastrous analogy and enemy despise, slaves were replaced by deer who died in the process, tempering swords, until it occurred to someone that the issue of having to kill someone or some animal for the temper of steel would be a superstition ... and so proofed by doing it with water, or oil, achieving the same results, and so it is done until now in this west side of the planet.

22nd June 2015, 11:01 AM	#5
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 439	To Jim and all Toledo and Alatriste admirers Kind regards Ulfberth .... Attached Images

22nd June 2015, 07:56 PM	#7
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 439	Hi Fernando, The belt was a gift and is obviously not an Original, it just ads to the scenario, like a temporary frame , a bit like the box for the pocket pistols. I tried to duplicate the scene of the movie Alatriste, as you can see in the picture. The Espada ropera is 122 CM long and Original in all parts. kind regards Ulfberth Attached Images Last edited by ulfberth; 22nd June 2015 at 08:14 PM.

21st June 2015, 02:59 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,660	Fernando, thank you so much for this exacting detail on the character of these weapons as well as the texture of their making and the atmosphere of the time. It is as always, colorfully described as you do masterfully, and makes me appreciate these all the more!!! (as if I could be any more obsessed with them!!! Thank you, Jim

21st June 2015, 04:25 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,204	Bravo, Fernando! I also wish to thank you on the dissertation of such magnificent blades! Just like Jim, I'm really taken in by these swords and their colorful history!

22nd June 2015, 07:35 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Ah ... a sword (rapier) without scabbard but with suspension belt. Are these interestingly genuine examples ... both sword and suspender ? Maybe (at the least) the suspender ia a replica ? The sword looks huge ... how long is it ?

23rd June 2015, 02:13 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,660	Magnificent rapier Ufberth!!!! and in that setting superb!!! I had not even known on this movie, "Alatriste" but now that I do I must have it It doesn't matter that the suspension device is not original, it looks amazing with this piece. Anyone with a true passion for these rapiers would be smitten with this grouping! Thank you for this. All the best, Jim