Nice Manding Sword For Comment

Emanuel · 19th December 2005, 04:09 AM

Hello,

The manding sword is quite beautiful, even without the French blade it seems much more refined than the croc skin kaskara. Was the tip of the blade modified? The angle seems very acute for european sabre blades. I don't mean to hijack this thread, but does this sword http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
also carry a French sabre blade? Are such large fullers characteristic of 18th-19th century sabres?

Manolo

Jim McDougall · 19th December 2005, 06:01 AM

Hi Manolo,
The sabre you have linked does have what appears to be a European blade, probably French or German. What is interesting is the very deep parabolic curve. It seems that during the Napoleonic campaigns in Egypt, encounters with the Mamluks gave attention to the sabres they used, and blades of this type were sought by officers of both France and England for thier personal swords. The sabre you show may be French, but the mounts are completely atypical and seem certainly reasonably modern.
The fullering is very typical of European sabres of the 18th and 19th centuries and is usually termed hollow ground, for the wide removal of material to lighten the blade.
I have an English sabre of c.1800 which has a blade of extremely parabolic curve, and a sharp point which was unusual for this period, as most sabres favored the widely radiused hatchet point. It would seem that French versions of parabolic curve of this period might have a sharp point as well.
Best regards,
Jim

Lew · 19th December 2005, 09:02 AM

[QUOTE=Manolo]Hello,

The manding sword is quite beautiful, even without the French blade it seems much more refined than the croc skin kaskara. Was the tip of the blade modified? The angle seems very acute for european sabre blades.

Manolo

As far as I can tell the tip is original with no modifications. I will try to post a closeup sometime later today. If you go to http://www.michaeldlong.net/ there is an example of a sword with the same blade you will find it under the French swords section and this is the item number.
98763 FRENCH 1822 PATTERN CAVALRY SWORD SCABBARD

Lew

Emanuel · 20th December 2005, 01:24 AM

Hello Jim,
Thanks for clearing up these questions for me, same goes for the kaskara. I was aware of the influences Mameluk sabres had on Napoleon's forces, even he kept a number of famous ones as I recall. On blades with slighter curvature such as the one on this manding, I guess the point can well be used to stab, but on the extremely curved cavalry examples it would be of little use, if not aesthetic.
Lew, thank you for the link, it's a very usefull site. I see that deep ground was indeed quite even in 18th c. blades. Is it a relatively new development? As I recall medieval swords did not sport such wide, deep fullers, so -to me at least- it seems like a feature adapted from renaissance/baroque rapiers. Furthermore, did they become so popular on account of cavalry sabres?

So far I've accorded little interest to European blades, but they certainly have their beauty and merits.

Manolo

Jim McDougall · 20th December 2005, 02:33 AM

Hi Manolo,
Glad I could help, and I appreciate your response

With the study of ethnographic weapons, the presence of many European trade and military blades is almost standard. In Saharan regions many French military blades from occupational forces found thier way into native hilts throughout the 19th century. In my opinion, this adds so much more dimension to the heritage of these weapons and makes them all the more fascinating!
All the best,
Jim

19th December 2005, 04:09 AM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, The manding sword is quite beautiful, even without the French blade it seems much more refined than the croc skin kaskara. Was the tip of the blade modified? The angle seems very acute for european sabre blades. I don't mean to hijack this thread, but does this sword http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 also carry a French sabre blade? Are such large fullers characteristic of 18th-19th century sabres? Manolo

19th December 2005, 06:01 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Hi Manolo, The sabre you have linked does have what appears to be a European blade, probably French or German. What is interesting is the very deep parabolic curve. It seems that during the Napoleonic campaigns in Egypt, encounters with the Mamluks gave attention to the sabres they used, and blades of this type were sought by officers of both France and England for thier personal swords. The sabre you show may be French, but the mounts are completely atypical and seem certainly reasonably modern. The fullering is very typical of European sabres of the 18th and 19th centuries and is usually termed hollow ground, for the wide removal of material to lighten the blade. I have an English sabre of c.1800 which has a blade of extremely parabolic curve, and a sharp point which was unusual for this period, as most sabres favored the widely radiused hatchet point. It would seem that French versions of parabolic curve of this period might have a sharp point as well. Best regards, Jim

19th December 2005, 09:02 AM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=Manolo]Hello, The manding sword is quite beautiful, even without the French blade it seems much more refined than the croc skin kaskara. Was the tip of the blade modified? The angle seems very acute for european sabre blades. Manolo As far as I can tell the tip is original with no modifications. I will try to post a closeup sometime later today. If you go to http://www.michaeldlong.net/ there is an example of a sword with the same blade you will find it under the French swords section and this is the item number. 98763 FRENCH 1822 PATTERN CAVALRY SWORD SCABBARD Lew

20th December 2005, 01:24 AM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello Jim, Thanks for clearing up these questions for me, same goes for the kaskara. I was aware of the influences Mameluk sabres had on Napoleon's forces, even he kept a number of famous ones as I recall. On blades with slighter curvature such as the one on this manding, I guess the point can well be used to stab, but on the extremely curved cavalry examples it would be of little use, if not aesthetic. Lew, thank you for the link, it's a very usefull site. I see that deep ground was indeed quite even in 18th c. blades. Is it a relatively new development? As I recall medieval swords did not sport such wide, deep fullers, so -to me at least- it seems like a feature adapted from renaissance/baroque rapiers. Furthermore, did they become so popular on account of cavalry sabres? So far I've accorded little interest to European blades, but they certainly have their beauty and merits. Manolo

20th December 2005, 02:33 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Hi Manolo, Glad I could help, and I appreciate your response With the study of ethnographic weapons, the presence of many European trade and military blades is almost standard. In Saharan regions many French military blades from occupational forces found thier way into native hilts throughout the 19th century. In my opinion, this adds so much more dimension to the heritage of these weapons and makes them all the more fascinating! All the best, Jim