My gunong collection and some thoughts

Rick · 4th June 2015, 04:59 PM

I think there's also a chance this handle is of Tridacna, or the Giant Clam shell .
I didn't get to see the item description on ebay; are there any more pictures available Detlef ?

Sajen · 4th June 2015, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I think there's also a chance this handle is of Tridacna, or the Giant Clam shell .
I didn't get to see the item description on ebay; are there any more pictures available Detlef ?

Hello Rick,
that would be a nice surprise. It was described as "Chinese Kris Dagger" and the seller posted only this both pictures and no measurements. Hope that it is not one of this small souvenir gunongs.

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 4th June 2015, 06:24 PM

So far I would place this piece in the 1940s. The mounts could be white metal, or tarnished silver.

The pommel shape is not quite the earlier forms. I have seen these made going back to the 1950s. Earlier forms curve and are not bent straight.

Sajen · 4th June 2015, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

So far I would place this piece in the 1940s. The mounts could be white metal, or tarnished silver.

The pommel shape is not quite the earlier forms. I have seen these made going back to the 1950s. Earlier forms curve and are not bent straight.

Thank you Jose for your educated opinion.

This would explain the sharp luks and the good condition. But the workmanship look quite good. Do you think that to this time they were worked for locals or for tourists?

Regards,
Detlef

Robert · 5th June 2015, 12:42 AM

Hello Detlef,
I would not worry too much about this being a small piece made for tourist as most of the ones of this style I've seen are from 10/12 inches in length. As Jose has pointed out the hilt having the sudden bend and not a slow or flowing curve points to its being of later construction and I would agree with his estimate of age placing this most likely in the 1940's. I'm not sure the pointed luks being present on a gunong is an accurate way of dating them any longer as there is now some evidence that pointed luks on kris have been in use long before previously thought. That being said I would not think it would be too much of a stretch of the imagination to think that pointed luks might not also have been used on gunong blades from the same time period. Any way it goes I like this piece and am looking forward to its arrival.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 12th June 2015, 09:05 PM

First, thank you Robert for you thoughts about the gunong, second for the good pictures I've received from you.

Here a few of this pictures. Robert and I am very unsure about the handle material, it's almost looks to my eyes like walrus ivory but I am very, very unsure. Any thoughts?

Iain · 12th June 2015, 10:43 PM

My entirely uneducated opinion also says walrus, or at least marine ivory.

Ian · 12th June 2015, 10:56 PM

Sajen:

In the close up of the handle the little black dots visible, especially towards the end of the hilt, look like Haversian canals in cross section. This suggests that the handle is made from bone rather than a form of ivory.

Walrus ivory is extremely rare in the Philippines and would, I think, be restricted to high end, expensive weapons. I have not seen a convincing example of walrus ivory on a moro weapon. However, I have seen what was said to be dugong ivory on the pommel of a datu quality kris.

Ian.

12th June 2015, 09:05 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	First, thank you Robert for you thoughts about the gunong, second for the good pictures I've received from you. Here a few of this pictures. Robert and I am very unsure about the handle material, it's almost looks to my eyes like walrus ivory but I am very, very unsure. Any thoughts? Attached Images

4th June 2015, 04:59 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I think there's also a chance this handle is of Tridacna, or the Giant Clam shell . I didn't get to see the item description on ebay; are there any more pictures available Detlef ?

4th June 2015, 06:24 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	So far I would place this piece in the 1940s. The mounts could be white metal, or tarnished silver. The pommel shape is not quite the earlier forms. I have seen these made going back to the 1950s. Earlier forms curve and are not bent straight.

5th June 2015, 12:42 AM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, I would not worry too much about this being a small piece made for tourist as most of the ones of this style I've seen are from 10/12 inches in length. As Jose has pointed out the hilt having the sudden bend and not a slow or flowing curve points to its being of later construction and I would agree with his estimate of age placing this most likely in the 1940's. I'm not sure the pointed luks being present on a gunong is an accurate way of dating them any longer as there is now some evidence that pointed luks on kris have been in use long before previously thought. That being said I would not think it would be too much of a stretch of the imagination to think that pointed luks might not also have been used on gunong blades from the same time period. Any way it goes I like this piece and am looking forward to its arrival. Best, Robert

12th June 2015, 10:43 PM	#7
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	My entirely uneducated opinion also says walrus, or at least marine ivory.

12th June 2015, 10:56 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Sajen: In the close up of the handle the little black dots visible, especially towards the end of the hilt, look like Haversian canals in cross section. This suggests that the handle is made from bone rather than a form of ivory. Walrus ivory is extremely rare in the Philippines and would, I think, be restricted to high end, expensive weapons. I have not seen a convincing example of walrus ivory on a moro weapon. However, I have seen what was said to be dugong ivory on the pommel of a datu quality kris. Ian.