Two Kris for comment, and a new member who's eager to learn.

Battara · 4th June 2015, 01:05 AM

Mabuhay and welcome to our little forum!

On the first kris, it appears to have a Maranao tribal beginning of the 20th century blade with a perhaps latter rewrapped hilt. The pommel looks like it is horn. The scabbard maybe later and seems to be from the Sulu or copied from Sulu region. I suspect that it was later made, yes like during WWII or a little later.

The second kris appears in the picture to me to be Maguindanao with a horn hilt but stripped of it's silver and hemp bands. There was also a top band as well (more close ups would help). Both blade and scabbard maybe also at the beginning of the 20th century, with the scabbard having the later addition of leather underneath of the cross piece of the scabbard (called the wranga). I agree with you that there were metal bands and a bottom piece originally on the scabbard now missing.

Hope this helps.

Rafngard · 4th June 2015, 06:49 PM

First of all, thank you very much for your welcome and your opinion. This is very helpful. Also, more pics are now posted.

Can I ask what some of the factors that brought to to that opinion are? Is some of it the shape of the gangya, in particular, what on a keris would be called the gerneng and the kembang kecang? Apologies if I'm misusing the terms, I haven't had much luck finding equivalent terms for the kris, though I admit I have yet to read Cato's book (used copies are rather cost prohibitive currently).

I'm eager to learn, and any help you can give this newbie would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Leif

kronckew · 4th June 2015, 11:53 PM

put a drop of clorox bleach on silver, it will produce a black spot very quickly - within a few minutes. aluminum or nickel silver will not spot. egg yolk also will quickly turn silver black from the sulphur that produces the rotten egg smell.

Rick · 5th June 2015, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafngard

First of all, thank you very much for your welcome and your opinion. This is very helpful. Also, more pics are now posted.

Can I ask what some of the factors that brought to to that opinion are? Is some of it the shape of the gangya, in particular, what on a keris would be called the gerneng and the kembang kecang? Apologies if I'm misusing the terms, I haven't had much luck finding equivalent terms for the kris, though I admit I have yet to read Cato's book (used copies are rather cost prohibitive currently).

I'm eager to learn, and any help you can give this newbie would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Leif

Hi Leif, welcome .
I think you would be well served by checking through the forum archives; there is treasure to be found there in both the Ethnographic and Keris forums .

Yes, the terminology is confusing, and many names for the same feature; what the Javanese would call the Greneng are the notches filed into the tail of the blade where it widens at the hilt .

Kembang Kacang relates to the features found on the opposite side from the Greneng specifically, IIRC, the part that looks like an elephant's trunk .
The differences in this feature area help to identify the tribal or island Moro groups .
I would agree with what Battara has observed about the two examples you have shown us .

Rafngard · 7th June 2015, 11:27 PM

Thank you both Rick and kronckew for your information.

I'm super happy to hear that the Maguindanao one seems to be early 20th century. I thought it might be latter.

I'm going to try the bleach test on the asang-asang on both of these in the next few days. It turns out there is a silver looking band under the leather.

Any opinions on whether or not it would be worth trying to etch them? The Maranao one in particular has sort of line down the middle that seems to be lighter colored, which makes me suspicious. I've found several recipes/procedures in the archives, but would be more than happy to hear anyone's recommendations.

A question on the Sulu or perhaps faux Sulu scabbard, any thoughts on the carvings? The lower ones seem rather touristy, but the one on the wranga looks stylistically different.

Also, I'm finding so much treasure in the archives here, and I feel like I'm only beginning to scratch the surface. This appears to be a very deep rabbit hole.

Have fun,
Leif

4th June 2015, 01:05 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Mabuhay and welcome to our little forum! On the first kris, it appears to have a Maranao tribal beginning of the 20th century blade with a perhaps latter rewrapped hilt. The pommel looks like it is horn. The scabbard maybe later and seems to be from the Sulu or copied from Sulu region. I suspect that it was later made, yes like during WWII or a little later. The second kris appears in the picture to me to be Maguindanao with a horn hilt but stripped of it's silver and hemp bands. There was also a top band as well (more close ups would help). Both blade and scabbard maybe also at the beginning of the 20th century, with the scabbard having the later addition of leather underneath of the cross piece of the scabbard (called the wranga). I agree with you that there were metal bands and a bottom piece originally on the scabbard now missing. Hope this helps.

4th June 2015, 06:49 PM	#2
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 354	First of all, thank you very much for your welcome and your opinion. This is very helpful. Also, more pics are now posted. Can I ask what some of the factors that brought to to that opinion are? Is some of it the shape of the gangya, in particular, what on a keris would be called the gerneng and the kembang kecang? Apologies if I'm misusing the terms, I haven't had much luck finding equivalent terms for the kris, though I admit I have yet to read Cato's book (used copies are rather cost prohibitive currently). I'm eager to learn, and any help you can give this newbie would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again, Leif

4th June 2015, 11:53 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,239	put a drop of clorox bleach on silver, it will produce a black spot very quickly - within a few minutes. aluminum or nickel silver will not spot. egg yolk also will quickly turn silver black from the sulphur that produces the rotten egg smell.

7th June 2015, 11:27 PM	#5
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 354	Thank you both Rick and kronckew for your information. I'm super happy to hear that the Maguindanao one seems to be early 20th century. I thought it might be latter. I'm going to try the bleach test on the asang-asang on both of these in the next few days. It turns out there is a silver looking band under the leather. Any opinions on whether or not it would be worth trying to etch them? The Maranao one in particular has sort of line down the middle that seems to be lighter colored, which makes me suspicious. I've found several recipes/procedures in the archives, but would be more than happy to hear anyone's recommendations. A question on the Sulu or perhaps faux Sulu scabbard, any thoughts on the carvings? The lower ones seem rather touristy, but the one on the wranga looks stylistically different. Also, I'm finding so much treasure in the archives here, and I feel like I'm only beginning to scratch the surface. This appears to be a very deep rabbit hole. Have fun, Leif