Basket hilted swords

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 11th May 2015, 12:39 PM

Salaams All, I wonder if I can cut across several posts here and introduce the following article on Basket Hilts which as an introduction I Quote" With Open "S" Paneled Guards
Anthony D. Darling
The two swords illustrated and discussed in this
paper are of particular importance to students and
collectors of 18th century British military edged
weapons, primarily those in use prior to the first regulation
patterns of 1788.' One (1 A), having a brass
hilt, is a cavalry sword while the other (IB), with steel
hilt, is the weapon of an infantryman. Contemporary
pictorial evidence indicates that the latter was in use
as early as 1742 and, as the former's guard configuration
resembles its infantry counterpart so closely,
we can safely assume that both swords date from this
period. What is strange is that so fragile a metal as
brass would have been used for the hilt of a mounted
man's sword, his primary weapon, whereas swords
were rarely used by infantry, and, if so, only as a last
resort. In fact, swords were abolished for infantry
privates save for grenadier^,^ Highlanders and drummers
in 176€L3 Records indicate that many infantry
regiments had in fact stopped wearing swords during
the Seven Years' War (1756-1763).4
Infantry Sword
This sword, or "hanger," has a slightly curved,
single-edged 28-inch blade with one narrow fuller.
The blade is stamped with the remains of a "running
fox" mark which may indicate the work of the Birmingham
sword cutler, Samuel Ha r v e y....." Unquote. For the entire document I reccommend http://americansocietyofarmscollecto...49_Darling.pdf

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 11th May 2015, 02:25 PM

Salaams....and heres another thing ! I didnt know that Mazanskys work was on the web ..free...and it is essential reading...please see the slightly incomplete but hugely informative work which goes in for Typology of this enormously morphed style of sword...This work certainly helps the reader balance the various weapons. Please see https://books.google.com.om/books?id...ration&f=false

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Cathey · 16th May 2015, 07:44 AM

Hi Guys

Just working through what I have and haven’t posted and realised I had not put my favourite up yet, so here goes.

Scottish Basket Hilt by Thomas Gemmill
Date: Circa 1690-1720 (17-18th Century)
Nationality: Scottish (Glasgow)
Overall Length: 93.5 cm (36.8 inches)
Blade length: 79.7 cm (31.4 inches)
Blade widest point: 4.4 cm (1.7 inches)
Marks, etc: Blade marked "Andria Farara" in the centre.

Description
The Iron hilt has a broad flared wrist guard with fluted decoration. The edges of all the broad and narrow guards are cut with pairs of claws with bifurcated ends. The piercing includes hearts made up of three separate holes, a diamond one shaped to fit between the other two which are round. The central piercing on the broad guards is in the form of an X. The grip is stag horn. All other bars are broad and have deep fluted decoration. This is a full basket. The broad sword blade is marked “"Andria Farara" on both sides.

General Remarks
Provenance: sold by Philip Fialides of Impala Antiques to retired Victorian Superintendent of Police Noel Standfield, Noel then sold the sword on to Murray Gray. Noel had done considerable research on this sword and was the first to claim it is an unsigned Gemmill.

Sword has since been confirmed as an unsigned Thomas Gemmill by the Baron of Earlshall who will be featuring this sword in his book.

Thomas Gemmill (Kings Armourer in Glasgow, c. 1718-1737)

Cheers Cathey and Rex

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 16th May 2015, 05:40 PM

Salaams all...In support of the above post please see https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1899820795

Simply go to the page and select the required Illustration which is also loaded with script details...on page 13 ...Scottish Broadsword with Highland Dirk puts the reader in the middle of Swordmaker style, detail, makers names etc etc...Including some Andrea Ferara details.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Cathey · 21st May 2015, 05:27 AM

Hi Guys

Just looking back at what I have and haven’t posted on this thread already and realised I missed the third of my Spiracle Pommel Swords, so here it is.

Basket Hilted Back Sword (Irish Hilt)
Date: Circa 1615-40
Nationality: British
Overall Length: 108.6 cm 42 ¾”
Blade length: 95.1 cm 37 5/8”
Blade widest point: 2.8 cm 1 1/8”
Hilt widest point: 11.3 cm 4 2/4”
Inside grip length: 8.5 cm 3 3/8”
Marks, etc.: Blade marked to both sides to a German, Solingen Swordsmith, “CLEMENS DINGER”.

With regards to marks, I flipped the picture of the two makes under the hilt upside down and what I first thought looked like some kind of snake now looks more like two swans. Sometimes I think the more you look at sword marks the more confusing they get.

Description
English Basket Hilt circa 1615-40
English basket hilt sword (Irish Hilt) of early form, approx. Staghorn grip (latter replacement), steel guard of early type with the feature of a loop in the nut that attaches the guard to the Spherical pommel. The backsword blade is attributed to Clemens Dingen (II) recorded as working 1630-1710 and marked with CLEMENS DINGER and the Orb and cross on both sides.

References:
MAZANSKY (C.) BRITISH BASKET-HILTED SWORDS: A TYPOLOGY OF BASKET-TYPE SWORD HILTS pp67
MOWBRAY, Stuart C BRITISH MILITARY SWORDS VOLUME ONE 1600-1660 The English Civil Wars and the Birth of the British Standing Army pp122
OAKESHOTT, Ewart EUROPEAN WEAPONS AND ARMOUR From the Renaissance to the Industrial Revolution pp176-178

Cheers Cathey and Rex

cornelistromp · 21st May 2015, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

The backsword blade is attributed to Clemens Dingen (II) recorded as working 1630-1710 and marked with CLEMENS DINGER and the Orb and cross on both sides.

WOW, he worked 80 years !

there is a famous Swedish sword known which can be dated to 1627 with a similar standing swan of Clemens Dinger.
I will check it later today.

best,

cornelistromp · 22nd May 2015, 09:08 AM

swan mark and "signature Clemens Deinger" on rapier of Gustav II. Adolf from Sweden carried at battle of Dirschau Poland in 1627.

Clemens Dinger worked for from <1627 to the 1650s, the swan mark (different) was also used by his son Heinrich and used by his grandson Wilhem in 1698 onwards.

16th May 2015, 07:44 AM	#3
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Scottish Basket Hilt by Thomas Gemmill Hi Guys Just working through what I have and haven’t posted and realised I had not put my favourite up yet, so here goes. Scottish Basket Hilt by Thomas Gemmill Date: Circa 1690-1720 (17-18th Century) Nationality: Scottish (Glasgow) Overall Length: 93.5 cm (36.8 inches) Blade length: 79.7 cm (31.4 inches) Blade widest point: 4.4 cm (1.7 inches) Marks, etc: Blade marked "Andria Farara" in the centre. Description The Iron hilt has a broad flared wrist guard with fluted decoration. The edges of all the broad and narrow guards are cut with pairs of claws with bifurcated ends. The piercing includes hearts made up of three separate holes, a diamond one shaped to fit between the other two which are round. The central piercing on the broad guards is in the form of an X. The grip is stag horn. All other bars are broad and have deep fluted decoration. This is a full basket. The broad sword blade is marked “"Andria Farara" on both sides. General Remarks Provenance: sold by Philip Fialides of Impala Antiques to retired Victorian Superintendent of Police Noel Standfield, Noel then sold the sword on to Murray Gray. Noel had done considerable research on this sword and was the first to claim it is an unsigned Gemmill. Sword has since been confirmed as an unsigned Thomas Gemmill by the Baron of Earlshall who will be featuring this sword in his book. Thomas Gemmill (Kings Armourer in Glasgow, c. 1718-1737) Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

16th May 2015, 05:40 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all...In support of the above post please see https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1899820795 Simply go to the page and select the required Illustration which is also loaded with script details...on page 13 ...Scottish Broadsword with Highland Dirk puts the reader in the middle of Swordmaker style, detail, makers names etc etc...Including some Andrea Ferara details. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 16th May 2015 at 06:00 PM.

21st May 2015, 05:27 AM	#5
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Basket Hilted Back Sword (Irish Hilt) Hi Guys Just looking back at what I have and haven’t posted on this thread already and realised I missed the third of my Spiracle Pommel Swords, so here it is. Basket Hilted Back Sword (Irish Hilt) Date: Circa 1615-40 Nationality: British Overall Length: 108.6 cm 42 ¾” Blade length: 95.1 cm 37 5/8” Blade widest point: 2.8 cm 1 1/8” Hilt widest point: 11.3 cm 4 2/4” Inside grip length: 8.5 cm 3 3/8” Marks, etc.: Blade marked to both sides to a German, Solingen Swordsmith, “CLEMENS DINGER”. With regards to marks, I flipped the picture of the two makes under the hilt upside down and what I first thought looked like some kind of snake now looks more like two swans. Sometimes I think the more you look at sword marks the more confusing they get. Description English Basket Hilt circa 1615-40 English basket hilt sword (Irish Hilt) of early form, approx. Staghorn grip (latter replacement), steel guard of early type with the feature of a loop in the nut that attaches the guard to the Spherical pommel. The backsword blade is attributed to Clemens Dingen (II) recorded as working 1630-1710 and marked with CLEMENS DINGER and the Orb and cross on both sides. References: MAZANSKY (C.) BRITISH BASKET-HILTED SWORDS: A TYPOLOGY OF BASKET-TYPE SWORD HILTS pp67 MOWBRAY, Stuart C BRITISH MILITARY SWORDS VOLUME ONE 1600-1660 The English Civil Wars and the Birth of the British Standing Army pp122 OAKESHOTT, Ewart EUROPEAN WEAPONS AND ARMOUR From the Renaissance to the Industrial Revolution pp176-178 Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

22nd May 2015, 09:08 AM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,063	swan mark and "signature Clemens Deinger" on rapier of Gustav II. Adolf from Sweden carried at battle of Dirschau Poland in 1627. Clemens Dinger worked for from <1627 to the 1650s, the swan mark (different) was also used by his son Heinrich and used by his grandson Wilhem in 1698 onwards. Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 22nd May 2015 at 11:54 AM.

11th May 2015, 12:39 PM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All, I wonder if I can cut across several posts here and introduce the following article on Basket Hilts which as an introduction I Quote" With Open "S" Paneled Guards Anthony D. Darling The two swords illustrated and discussed in this paper are of particular importance to students and collectors of 18th century British military edged weapons, primarily those in use prior to the first regulation patterns of 1788.' One (1 A), having a brass hilt, is a cavalry sword while the other (IB), with steel hilt, is the weapon of an infantryman. Contemporary pictorial evidence indicates that the latter was in use as early as 1742 and, as the former's guard configuration resembles its infantry counterpart so closely, we can safely assume that both swords date from this period. What is strange is that so fragile a metal as brass would have been used for the hilt of a mounted man's sword, his primary weapon, whereas swords were rarely used by infantry, and, if so, only as a last resort. In fact, swords were abolished for infantry privates save for grenadier^,^ Highlanders and drummers in 176€L3 Records indicate that many infantry regiments had in fact stopped wearing swords during the Seven Years' War (1756-1763).4 Infantry Sword This sword, or "hanger," has a slightly curved, single-edged 28-inch blade with one narrow fuller. The blade is stamped with the remains of a "running fox" mark which may indicate the work of the Birmingham sword cutler, Samuel Ha r v e y....." Unquote. For the entire document I reccommend http://americansocietyofarmscollecto...49_Darling.pdf Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

11th May 2015, 02:25 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams....and heres another thing ! I didnt know that Mazanskys work was on the web ..free...and it is essential reading...please see the slightly incomplete but hugely informative work which goes in for Typology of this enormously morphed style of sword...This work certainly helps the reader balance the various weapons. Please see https://books.google.com.om/books?id...ration&f=false Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.