Luristan iron sword need advice for preservation.

Cerjak · 10th May 2015, 02:09 PM

Hello VANDOO,stekemest,ward and Kubur

I would like to thank you for your wise advice in the way to preserve this sword.
Best

Cerjak

stekemest · 10th May 2015, 06:27 PM

Be careful when handling a Dremel though. Some objects are so fragile that it is better to just conserve them as they are, without removing the surface rust. Hard to judge by pictures, would have to see it in person.

Rick · 10th May 2015, 06:30 PM

This sword appears to have some kind of coating already applied to it .
Couldn't this be problematic when trying any conservation process ?

stekemest · 10th May 2015, 06:50 PM

It seems indeed to have been cleaned halfheartedly, with a lot of the surface rust still on it. The problem is that we don't know if it was desalinated. Most of the corrosion is produced by the reaction of interior salts with the surrounding humidity. Cerjak, I would probably just put it in a dry und stable environment with a lot of silicagel and watch it over the course of a few months. If there is a lot of corrosion, you could follow the procedure as mentioned. The coating will be removed when bathed in Aceton.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that it's no fake. It looks perfectly like an excavated, some hundreds to thousands years old piece of iron.

Cerjak · 3rd January 2022, 01:58 PM

After sending photos of this sword to Professor Helmut Föll, he informed me that it was a luristan sword type II in his reckoning but still rather close to type I. ( mask sword) also he wrote me that he was not aware of similar ones in museums because Type II hasn’t been found very often anyway.
Professor Fool is co-author of “Absolute Dating of Early Iron Objects from the Ancient Orient: Radiocarbon Dating of Luristan Iron Mask Swords”
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 17 April 2019
to follow the work of Helmut Föll see this link :
https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/am...tr/sb_1_2.html

a must-see research on the subject

Saracen · 3rd January 2022, 10:42 PM

Thanks for this link

RobT · 4th January 2022, 12:52 AM

Cerjak,

Just a minor point not related to your preservation question. I am rather sure that for a ferrous metal object to be cast, it must have a good amount of an alloying element (e.g. carbon or phosphorus). Pure iron (element Fe) melts at 1,535° C (2,800° F). To most people's surprise, this very high temperature was only first obtained in the 20th century. What fuels the confusion is the use of iron in the names of substances which are ferrous metals but not pure iron. For example, both cast iron and pig iron have more carbon in them than does steel used for swords. Cast and pig irons are far too brittle and a sword made from either material would be prone to shattering on impact. Bottom line, if it is a cast Luristan sword, it is either steel or non-ferrous metal and if it is at all close to pure iron (i.e. wrought iron), it was forged, not cast.

Sincerely,
RobT

10th May 2015, 02:09 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	thank you for your wise advice Hello VANDOO,stekemest,ward and Kubur I would like to thank you for your wise advice in the way to preserve this sword. Best Cerjak

3rd January 2022, 01:58 PM	#5
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Professor Helmut Föll publication After sending photos of this sword to Professor Helmut Föll, he informed me that it was a luristan sword type II in his reckoning but still rather close to type I. ( mask sword) also he wrote me that he was not aware of similar ones in museums because Type II hasn’t been found very often anyway. Professor Fool is co-author of “Absolute Dating of Early Iron Objects from the Ancient Orient: Radiocarbon Dating of Luristan Iron Mask Swords” Published online by Cambridge University Press: 17 April 2019 to follow the work of Helmut Föll see this link : https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/am...tr/sb_1_2.html a must-see research on the subject

4th January 2022, 12:52 AM	#7
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 548	Can't be Cast & Pure Iron Cerjak, Just a minor point not related to your preservation question. I am rather sure that for a ferrous metal object to be cast, it must have a good amount of an alloying element (e.g. carbon or phosphorus). Pure iron (element Fe) melts at 1,535° C (2,800° F). To most people's surprise, this very high temperature was only first obtained in the 20th century. What fuels the confusion is the use of iron in the names of substances which are ferrous metals but not pure iron. For example, both cast iron and pig iron have more carbon in them than does steel used for swords. Cast and pig irons are far too brittle and a sword made from either material would be prone to shattering on impact. Bottom line, if it is a cast Luristan sword, it is either steel or non-ferrous metal and if it is at all close to pure iron (i.e. wrought iron), it was forged, not cast. Sincerely, RobT

10th May 2015, 06:27 PM	#2
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	Be careful when handling a Dremel though. Some objects are so fragile that it is better to just conserve them as they are, without removing the surface rust. Hard to judge by pictures, would have to see it in person.

10th May 2015, 06:30 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	This sword appears to have some kind of coating already applied to it . Couldn't this be problematic when trying any conservation process ?

10th May 2015, 06:50 PM	#4
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	It seems indeed to have been cleaned halfheartedly, with a lot of the surface rust still on it. The problem is that we don't know if it was desalinated. Most of the corrosion is produced by the reaction of interior salts with the surrounding humidity. Cerjak, I would probably just put it in a dry und stable environment with a lot of silicagel and watch it over the course of a few months. If there is a lot of corrosion, you could follow the procedure as mentioned. The coating will be removed when bathed in Aceton. BTW, I'm pretty sure that it's no fake. It looks perfectly like an excavated, some hundreds to thousands years old piece of iron.

3rd January 2022, 10:42 PM	#6
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Thanks for this link