Sunggingans

Gustav · 5th May 2015, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The word "cosmos" can be used to mean either the universe, or the world in which we live.

It is possible that Rens Heringa intended his use of "cosmos" to mean "the world in which we live", if so then I have no quarrel with that, however, it is more likely that he was misled by a minor misunderstanding in one of the captions in "World ---".

Alan, thank you very much for your explanations again.

I cannot speek for Rens Heringa, yet it seems to be possible, he used "cosmos" in its meaning "the world in which we live".

His reference wasn't "World of Javanese Keris", it was "Cosmic Symbolism in Semen and Alasalasan. Patterns in Javanese Textiles" by Solyom&Solyom in Gittinger, "Indonesian Textiles", 1979.

A. G. Maisey · 5th May 2015, 10:07 AM

Yes, I can see I misread the reference. Sorry.

If Rens Heringa did use "cosmos" in the sense of world rather than universe, then we have no problems.

However, I always have found this dual meaning rather strange. It is quite correct, Oxford tells me so, but I always read cosmos and universe in the larger sense unless the specific cosmos or universe are either identified or implied.

When we speak of the Gunungan as a cosmic symbol, we are speaking of all in creation, because we know that this is what the Gunungan is related to, but where there is no prior understanding of context these two words --- universe, cosmos --- can very easily be misunderstood.

Even my reference to the Javanese word "buana" can raise misunderstanding, because depending on context, buana can also be read as universe, the only reason that I know that it is our world that is meant in this context is because I have been told so.

A. G. Maisey · 5th May 2015, 10:10 PM

That little foray into the more serious side of things was both informative and amusing, but I didn't start this thread with the idea of getting too serious, I just wanted to get one of the more entertaining keris forms up for people to see, keris forms that are not very often seen.

So here's another one.Surakarta, ladrangan, motif is what we call "lung-lungan", a specific name for a motif of curling tendrils, "lung" means tendril or shoot.

The base colour of sea blue indicates that it is suited for wear by a penewu.

A. G. Maisey · 13th May 2015, 01:10 AM

David, you queried if there was a Balinese word that was the equivalent of "sunggingan".

I do not speak or understand Balinese, but my niece lives in Bali, I have just now spoken with her husband and he tells me that the equivalent word to "sunggingan" in Balinese is "laburan".

David · 13th May 2015, 05:18 AM

Thanks Alan.

A. G. Maisey · 20th May 2015, 11:33 PM

I now have a copy of the article written by Garrett & Bronwen Solyom, and that was used as a reference by Rens Heringa, as quoted by Gustav in post #23 of this thread.

The correct title of the article is "Notes and Observations on Indonesian Textiles", it was published in "Threads of Tradition" by Joseph Fischer, published by the University of California, which was a catalogue intended to accompany exhibitions held at the Lowie Museum of Anthropology, and the University Art Museum in Berkeley.

It is always useful to look at references, as not infrequently an author may either misinterpret a reference, or manipulate its meaning to suit his own agenda.

Gustav has told us that :-

" Alas-Alasan is described as a "cosmic model" in the essay of Rens Heringa in "Five Centuries of Indonesian Textiles" 2010, which is a quite serious publication."

It would seem that Rens Heringa has used this sentence in the Solyom article as his reference:-

"It appears that these elements might be part of a diagram of a conception of the cosmos"

this was written in discussion of the alas-alasan motif as used in certain specific royal cloths.

In fact, the alas-alasan motif is very frequently encountered in Javanese art, and has many forms of expression, not all of which can be thought of in the same way as the interpretation that the Solyoms were discussing in reference to its use on the specific royal cloths.

It is perhaps a little extreme to use a conjecture, such as was made by the Solyoms, as foundation for the interpretation of a motif that has many forms of expression which occur throughout a culture.

A better understanding of the nature of the alas-alasan motif may perhaps be obtained by a reading of the online version of this article:-

http://www.iiste.org/Journals/index....le/19032/19277

note in particular the source of this article.

Paku Buwono
To further clarify what I wrote in post #24 of this thread on the understanding of the title "Paku Buana" (this can also be transliterated as Paku Buwana, Paku Buwono, Paku Buono, Paku Buana).

In 2004 the Karaton Surakarta published an official book dealing with the Karaton, and endorsed by S.I.S.K.S. Paku Buwono XII. In the glossary of this book the term "Paku Buwono" is defined as:-

"name of the Surakarta royal dynasty: Nail/axis of the world".

The confusion that consistently arises in respect of how the word "buwono" must be understood in this context permeates almost all writings that deal with the Karaton Surakarta, even writings by people who should know better.

The fact of the matter is that the only people who truly know how the term should be understood are people who are high in the Karaton hierarchy, or those who have been taught by one of these people.

Tatyana Dianova · 9th November 2015, 08:46 PM

Another one from Bali, painted gold, red and black. Looks like an older one.
The subject to the back is pretty interesting: looks like a Raksasa and a princess, what can it be really?

5th May 2015, 10:10 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	That little foray into the more serious side of things was both informative and amusing, but I didn't start this thread with the idea of getting too serious, I just wanted to get one of the more entertaining keris forms up for people to see, keris forms that are not very often seen. So here's another one.Surakarta, ladrangan, motif is what we call "lung-lungan", a specific name for a motif of curling tendrils, "lung" means tendril or shoot. The base colour of sea blue indicates that it is suited for wear by a penewu. Attached Images Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 5th May 2015 at 11:33 PM.

9th November 2015, 08:46 PM	#7
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Another one from Bali, painted gold, red and black. Looks like an older one. The subject to the back is pretty interesting: looks like a Raksasa and a princess, what can it be really? Attached Images

5th May 2015, 10:07 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Yes, I can see I misread the reference. Sorry. If Rens Heringa did use "cosmos" in the sense of world rather than universe, then we have no problems. However, I always have found this dual meaning rather strange. It is quite correct, Oxford tells me so, but I always read cosmos and universe in the larger sense unless the specific cosmos or universe are either identified or implied. When we speak of the Gunungan as a cosmic symbol, we are speaking of all in creation, because we know that this is what the Gunungan is related to, but where there is no prior understanding of context these two words --- universe, cosmos --- can very easily be misunderstood. Even my reference to the Javanese word "buana" can raise misunderstanding, because depending on context, buana can also be read as universe, the only reason that I know that it is our world that is meant in this context is because I have been told so.

13th May 2015, 01:10 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	David, you queried if there was a Balinese word that was the equivalent of "sunggingan". I do not speak or understand Balinese, but my niece lives in Bali, I have just now spoken with her husband and he tells me that the equivalent word to "sunggingan" in Balinese is "laburan".

13th May 2015, 05:18 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,219	Thanks Alan.

20th May 2015, 11:33 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	I now have a copy of the article written by Garrett & Bronwen Solyom, and that was used as a reference by Rens Heringa, as quoted by Gustav in post #23 of this thread. The correct title of the article is "Notes and Observations on Indonesian Textiles", it was published in "Threads of Tradition" by Joseph Fischer, published by the University of California, which was a catalogue intended to accompany exhibitions held at the Lowie Museum of Anthropology, and the University Art Museum in Berkeley. It is always useful to look at references, as not infrequently an author may either misinterpret a reference, or manipulate its meaning to suit his own agenda. Gustav has told us that :- " Alas-Alasan is described as a "cosmic model" in the essay of Rens Heringa in "Five Centuries of Indonesian Textiles" 2010, which is a quite serious publication." It would seem that Rens Heringa has used this sentence in the Solyom article as his reference:- "It appears that these elements might be part of a diagram of a conception of the cosmos" this was written in discussion of the alas-alasan motif as used in certain specific royal cloths. In fact, the alas-alasan motif is very frequently encountered in Javanese art, and has many forms of expression, not all of which can be thought of in the same way as the interpretation that the Solyoms were discussing in reference to its use on the specific royal cloths. It is perhaps a little extreme to use a conjecture, such as was made by the Solyoms, as foundation for the interpretation of a motif that has many forms of expression which occur throughout a culture. A better understanding of the nature of the alas-alasan motif may perhaps be obtained by a reading of the online version of this article:- http://www.iiste.org/Journals/index....le/19032/19277 note in particular the source of this article. Paku Buwono To further clarify what I wrote in post #24 of this thread on the understanding of the title "Paku Buana" (this can also be transliterated as Paku Buwana, Paku Buwono, Paku Buono, Paku Buana). In 2004 the Karaton Surakarta published an official book dealing with the Karaton, and endorsed by S.I.S.K.S. Paku Buwono XII. In the glossary of this book the term "Paku Buwono" is defined as:- "name of the Surakarta royal dynasty: Nail/axis of the world". The confusion that consistently arises in respect of how the word "buwono" must be understood in this context permeates almost all writings that deal with the Karaton Surakarta, even writings by people who should know better. The fact of the matter is that the only people who truly know how the term should be understood are people who are high in the Karaton hierarchy, or those who have been taught by one of these people.