UNIDENTIFIED INDO PERSIAN OR ARAB SWORD FOR COMMENT

BANDOOK · 15th April 2015, 04:10 AM

THANKS KUBUR AND THANKS ARIEL,GOOD INPUTS

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 15th April 2015, 01:01 PM

Salaams, The stamp looks Turkish? ....Ottoman.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Bandook you have PM...

BANDOOK · 16th April 2015, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams, The stamp looks Turkish? ....Ottoman.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Bandook you have PM...

THANKS IBRAHIIM,CHEERS

spiral · 16th April 2015, 08:39 PM

The Afghan army imported massive amounts of Turkish weaponry many decades ago. That's why there so many Afghan marked WW1 German bayonets etc.turn up there.

But without a translation of the stamp, its hard to say which language using Arabic script is stamped on that blade.

Was the blade once pipe backed possibly?

Tatyana Dianova · 16th April 2015, 08:53 PM

An Afghani military sword with whole metal hilt and a Khyber blade - one may find weirdest combinations in this part of the world!

mahratt · 16th April 2015, 09:05 PM

I think this is Afghanistan.

spiral · 16th April 2015, 10:21 PM

Indeed Tatyana! Nice example!

They {The Afghan military} brought in weapons from everywhere, the also mixed matched component's & they also copied them as well!

And that's not even mentioning what the indigenous tribes created & mixed & matched.....

Norman McCormick · 17th April 2015, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

And that's not even mentioning what the indigenous tribes created & mixed & matched.....

Yup, my example.
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 17th April 2015, 09:21 PM

This is a most interesting example of variations of 'Anglo-Afghan' type arms which evolved in Afghan armies after the 2nd Anglo-Afghan war (Treaty of Gandamak, 30 May, 1879). While the Afghans had been developing a degree of 'westernization' in their armies with British subsidy much earlier, the Russians in the beginnings of the 'Great Game' were also trying to effect diplomatic relations there.

With this confluence, numbers of arms from these countries began coming in, and this influx of course continued well into the 20th century (obviously these conditions prevail into present times).

Amir Abdur Rahman Khan after the 1879 treaty became the de facto ruler under British suzerains, and with their subsidies continued industrial advance, in 1887 establishing the Mashin Khana arsenal in Kabul. Under British advisors the production of arms took place here, mostly with firearms but certainly including edged weapons in degree.

Most commonly seen are the Afghan swords sometimes termed 'regulation' types for the Afghan army, most of which seem to have been produced in the 1890s. These have characteristic pierced sheet steel knuckleguards with parallel openings (resembling typical guards on a number of European forms and British). At the top are also the complex 'swans neck' terminals next to the pommel. (see attached)

In the case of the posted example here, the pommel has an interesting cleft feature, which I would attribute to the forementioned Russian influences. It is worthy of note that a number of shashka like swords are present in Afghan context.

This blade is of a form known as 'quill point' well established in Germany early 19th c and often present on British cavalry sabres. It continued in German use well through the 19th c.

In 1893, Germany covertly sent representatives into Afghanistan to expand the arms factories. As the multi channeled heavy blades on the Afghan 'regulation' type swords seem quite German in quality, it begs the question , perhaps these quill point blades were produced for Afghan use as well?

I would say this is an Afghan military sabre of latter 19th century . It does not seem to have been produced in Mashin Khana as the notable mark is not present.

16th April 2015, 08:53 PM	#5
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	An Afghani military sword with whole metal hilt and a Khyber blade - one may find weirdest combinations in this part of the world! Attached Images

16th April 2015, 09:05 PM	#6
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	I think this is Afghanistan. Attached Images

17th April 2015, 09:21 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,467	This is a most interesting example of variations of 'Anglo-Afghan' type arms which evolved in Afghan armies after the 2nd Anglo-Afghan war (Treaty of Gandamak, 30 May, 1879). While the Afghans had been developing a degree of 'westernization' in their armies with British subsidy much earlier, the Russians in the beginnings of the 'Great Game' were also trying to effect diplomatic relations there. With this confluence, numbers of arms from these countries began coming in, and this influx of course continued well into the 20th century (obviously these conditions prevail into present times). Amir Abdur Rahman Khan after the 1879 treaty became the de facto ruler under British suzerains, and with their subsidies continued industrial advance, in 1887 establishing the Mashin Khana arsenal in Kabul. Under British advisors the production of arms took place here, mostly with firearms but certainly including edged weapons in degree. Most commonly seen are the Afghan swords sometimes termed 'regulation' types for the Afghan army, most of which seem to have been produced in the 1890s. These have characteristic pierced sheet steel knuckleguards with parallel openings (resembling typical guards on a number of European forms and British). At the top are also the complex 'swans neck' terminals next to the pommel. (see attached) In the case of the posted example here, the pommel has an interesting cleft feature, which I would attribute to the forementioned Russian influences. It is worthy of note that a number of shashka like swords are present in Afghan context. This blade is of a form known as 'quill point' well established in Germany early 19th c and often present on British cavalry sabres. It continued in German use well through the 19th c. In 1893, Germany covertly sent representatives into Afghanistan to expand the arms factories. As the multi channeled heavy blades on the Afghan 'regulation' type swords seem quite German in quality, it begs the question , perhaps these quill point blades were produced for Afghan use as well? I would say this is an Afghan military sabre of latter 19th century . It does not seem to have been produced in Mashin Khana as the notable mark is not present. Attached Images

15th April 2015, 04:10 AM	#1
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 627	THANKS KUBUR AND THANKS ARIEL,GOOD INPUTS

15th April 2015, 01:01 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams, The stamp looks Turkish? ....Ottoman. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi Bandook you have PM...

16th April 2015, 08:39 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	The Afghan army imported massive amounts of Turkish weaponry many decades ago. That's why there so many Afghan marked WW1 German bayonets etc.turn up there. But without a translation of the stamp, its hard to say which language using Arabic script is stamped on that blade. Was the blade once pipe backed possibly?

16th April 2015, 10:21 PM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Indeed Tatyana! Nice example! They {The Afghan military} brought in weapons from everywhere, the also mixed matched component's & they also copied them as well! And that's not even mentioning what the indigenous tribes created & mixed & matched.....