Armour?

Ahriman · 10th December 2005, 04:21 PM

Ok, thanks, nice picture again...

I'll stop at Allah because of the price... I got $50 for the vambraces, and I'll get $225 for the krug which will be blacked as well...

Another reason is that I've started learning arabic only very recently...

I could copy, of course, but I want to understand exactly what I write.
Oh, and I'll get $50 for the indian-like helmet as well... :-/

Aqtai · 10th December 2005, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahriman

Ok, thanks, nice picture again...

I'll stop at Allah because of the price... I got $50 for the vambraces, and I'll get $225 for the krug which will be blacked as well...

Another reason is that I've started learning arabic only very recently...

I could copy, of course, but I want to understand exactly what I write.
Oh, and I'll get $50 for the indian-like helmet as well... :-/

Fair comment.

I have to say your prices sound pretty reasonable.

hmm...

Ahriman · 11th December 2005, 02:45 PM

They are not reasonable - they are killing my shop...

I have to buy food, and pay for heat, water and electricity, while I have to constantly stock raw material and buy new equipment. I sell most of my armour far under value, either because I was late with them, or I desperately need that money, or simply because I'm not famous, and mostly, because I'm in Hungary, and sell only to Hungary. Even a good SCA level armour sells at $2-3000, but I could get less than $800 for the very same, while MacPherson, the very best modern armourer can ask for 20K as a start.
And because of this, I have to stick to munitions grade stuff... where function is more important than anything else, and production cost can be kept at a minimum. If someone wanted to pay even 10-15K for a vollharnisch, and would be able to wait for a year or so, I could even make Negroli-level armour, as I have the tools and the skill as well... but for 800$, I won't.

So if anyone is interested: the correct price for that fluted vambrace should be at $100-120, the helmet about 150, and the krug is correct at 225. A correct, munitions grade barbute (italian classic-like helmet) would be about $400. Riveted mail doubles the price, while blackening adds 50%.

Ahriman · 11th December 2005, 02:50 PM

Hm, I forgot.
Is it possible to put skirting on a krug? You know, something like the suit in the MET...
And one more thing... How high shall a krug be? The current one is modified already, so it doesn't count, but the next one will be, most likely, authentic... I made it to european standars, so it stops a little after the ribs. Is it too long, or too short?
Last thing. I bet you don't put on a hauberk under a krug, right?
Thanks!

Aqtai · 11th December 2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahriman

Hm, I forgot.
Is it possible to put skirting on a krug? You know, something like the suit in the MET...
And one more thing... How high shall a krug be? The current one is modified already, so it doesn't count, but the next one will be, most likely, authentic... I made it to european standars, so it stops a little after the ribs. Is it too long, or too short?
Last thing. I bet you don't put on a hauberk under a krug, right?
Thanks!

Actually, AFAIK, you do!

The krug was worn over a mail hauberk. It provided additional protection to the chest, abdomen, sides and shoulders. Although i suppose they could also be worn on their own.

This is an old photo of the Royal armouries krug. And yes those are greaves being used as vambraces, like I said, it's an old photo:

It was still over a mail hauberk when I first visited the Royal armouries in 1989.

This is how it is now:

These krugs are also worn over mail hauberks:
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5...bert1017ui.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...an_Stone_1.jpg

I normally don't really approve of reconstructions (they get too many details wrong), but I think this might be helpful:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...scirca1600.jpg

Ahriman · 11th December 2005, 07:11 PM

Ok, thanks, useful pictures again...

So I measured it well... sad thing is that I can't find examples of skirted krugs... So my one will be semi-fantasy, it seems... Krug-inspired mail&plates harness, huh.

But if that's the case, I will add the integrated m&p sleeves and the standing collar... it won't make it less authentic.

BTW, would this pass as Allah?
Oh, and it's the current layout, now without the spaulders. The back disc will have more flutes... exactly 16. The armpit-plates will have reinforcing flutes, at the centerline of the triangles. The main modification was the reducing of the disc's size. The lowest plate, which is now in one place, will be in 3, reducing the krug-like look even more.

Opinions? Especially, would it be possible?

Aqtai · 11th December 2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahriman

Ok, thanks, useful pictures again...

So I measured it well... sad thing is that I can't find examples of skirted krugs... So my one will be semi-fantasy, it seems... Krug-inspired mail&plates harness, huh.

But if that's the case, I will add the integrated m&p sleeves and the standing collar... it won't make it less authentic.

BTW, would this pass as Allah?
Oh, and it's the current layout, now without the spaulders. The back disc will have more flutes... exactly 16. The armpit-plates will have reinforcing flutes, at the centerline of the triangles. The main modification was the reducing of the disc's size. The lowest plate, which is now in one place, will be in 3, reducing the krug-like look even more.

Opinions? Especially, would it be possible?

I'll put it this way: you're not going to whin any prizes for Arabic calligraphy.

but yes, it's legible.

I see what you mean about the "skirt". It does change the appearence considerably. The bit above that is fine though. You haven't done the side pieces yet though?

Here's another picture of just the front part of a krug:
http://www.antiques-arms.com/catalog...roducts_id=548

10th December 2005, 04:21 PM	#1
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Ok, thanks, nice picture again... I'll stop at Allah because of the price... I got $50 for the vambraces, and I'll get $225 for the krug which will be blacked as well... Another reason is that I've started learning arabic only very recently... I could copy, of course, but I want to understand exactly what I write. Oh, and I'll get $50 for the indian-like helmet as well... :-/

11th December 2005, 02:45 PM	#3
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	They are not reasonable - they are killing my shop... I have to buy food, and pay for heat, water and electricity, while I have to constantly stock raw material and buy new equipment. I sell most of my armour far under value, either because I was late with them, or I desperately need that money, or simply because I'm not famous, and mostly, because I'm in Hungary, and sell only to Hungary. Even a good SCA level armour sells at $2-3000, but I could get less than $800 for the very same, while MacPherson, the very best modern armourer can ask for 20K as a start. And because of this, I have to stick to munitions grade stuff... where function is more important than anything else, and production cost can be kept at a minimum. If someone wanted to pay even 10-15K for a vollharnisch, and would be able to wait for a year or so, I could even make Negroli-level armour, as I have the tools and the skill as well... but for 800$, I won't. So if anyone is interested: the correct price for that fluted vambrace should be at $100-120, the helmet about 150, and the krug is correct at 225. A correct, munitions grade barbute (italian classic-like helmet) would be about $400. Riveted mail doubles the price, while blackening adds 50%.

11th December 2005, 02:50 PM	#4
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Hm, I forgot. Is it possible to put skirting on a krug? You know, something like the suit in the MET... And one more thing... How high shall a krug be? The current one is modified already, so it doesn't count, but the next one will be, most likely, authentic... I made it to european standars, so it stops a little after the ribs. Is it too long, or too short? Last thing. I bet you don't put on a hauberk under a krug, right? Thanks!

11th December 2005, 07:11 PM	#6
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Ok, thanks, useful pictures again... So I measured it well... sad thing is that I can't find examples of skirted krugs... So my one will be semi-fantasy, it seems... Krug-inspired mail&plates harness, huh. But if that's the case, I will add the integrated m&p sleeves and the standing collar... it won't make it less authentic. BTW, would this pass as Allah? Oh, and it's the current layout, now without the spaulders. The back disc will have more flutes... exactly 16. The armpit-plates will have reinforcing flutes, at the centerline of the triangles. The main modification was the reducing of the disc's size. The lowest plate, which is now in one place, will be in 3, reducing the krug-like look even more. Opinions? Especially, would it be possible?