A paradise hilt

Tim Simmons · 6th December 2005, 09:12 PM

Looks like silver, copper and zinc. I will have a guess that it is Persian or Indo/persian. Tim

Yannis · 7th December 2005, 06:15 PM

Hi Tim,
Cooper is better word than brass. I always mix up brass, bronze, cooper. I know the difference but I still make the mistake. Zinc? I am not sure, probably yes.

Indo Persian you say. Blade and the tip, I agree are indopersian. But…

The decoration could be, but (a) grapes are not in islamic tradition (b) I have not seen this 3d effect on indopersian stuff (where are you Jens?)

What about the bolster and the round hilt? They are not indopersian at all, in my opinion.

Tim Simmons · 7th December 2005, 08:54 PM

Hi Yannis, I think you may be right about it not being Indo/Persian. If it is not Islamic then it must surely be from areas where Islamic influence is very strong? Not an area I know much about except that Zinc originally came from the east, India? and has been used as a decorative metal in eastern countries unlike in western Europe. Zinc can have a blue grey colour and is malleable at very low temperature. Could this be Caucasian? Tim

ariel · 8th December 2005, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yannis

Hi Tim,
Cooper is better word than brass. I always mix up brass, bronze, cooper. I know the difference but I still make the mistake. Zinc? I am not sure, probably yes.

Indo Persian you say. Blade and the tip, I agree are indopersian. But…

The decoration could be, but (a) grapes are not in islamic tradition (b) I have not seen this 3d effect on indopersian stuff (where are you Jens?)

What about the bolster and the round hilt? They are not indopersian at all, in my opinion.

Well, the wine is not Islamic(although they drank it quite a lot, e.g. Hafiz), but grapes are perfectly fine. Am I missing something?
As to the bolster and round hilt, please see this:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=991
Looks Indo-Persian to me.

Yannis · 8th December 2005, 10:14 AM

Thank you for your help. I need it because I maybe live in illusions. As you say Indopersian is the obvious. But the bolster is very Ottoman (like yataghans), the hilt shape (one piece round and round top) is like a Balkan knife I have. All the kards I remember they have flat top. The artwork reminds me Epirus (now Greece and Albania) silverwork style. I can see the obvious but I posted it here to find something more accurate if it is possible. A similar piece maybe.

RSWORD · 8th December 2005, 02:08 PM

Also, the blade appears to be twist core damascus which is much more typical of Ottoman workmanship than Indian or Persian. With the Yataghan like bolster and style of damascus I think your observations are on the mark and would suggest a region under Ottoman influence.

Justin · 8th December 2005, 02:25 PM

This is far from the weapons I have the most experience with but my gut feeling is that this is an Indian knife,theres a similar knife in "Swords and Hilt Weapons" at the bottom of page 144,billed as Persian.

I tend to think the grapes would be pewter or lead instead of zinc.

6th December 2005, 09:12 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Looks like silver, copper and zinc. I will have a guess that it is Persian or Indo/persian. Tim

7th December 2005, 06:15 PM	#2
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Hi Tim, Cooper is better word than brass. I always mix up brass, bronze, cooper. I know the difference but I still make the mistake. Zinc? I am not sure, probably yes. Indo Persian you say. Blade and the tip, I agree are indopersian. But… The decoration could be, but (a) grapes are not in islamic tradition (b) I have not seen this 3d effect on indopersian stuff (where are you Jens?) What about the bolster and the round hilt? They are not indopersian at all, in my opinion.

7th December 2005, 08:54 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Hi Yannis, I think you may be right about it not being Indo/Persian. If it is not Islamic then it must surely be from areas where Islamic influence is very strong? Not an area I know much about except that Zinc originally came from the east, India? and has been used as a decorative metal in eastern countries unlike in western Europe. Zinc can have a blue grey colour and is malleable at very low temperature. Could this be Caucasian? Tim

8th December 2005, 10:14 AM	#5
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Thank you for your help. I need it because I maybe live in illusions. As you say Indopersian is the obvious. But the bolster is very Ottoman (like yataghans), the hilt shape (one piece round and round top) is like a Balkan knife I have. All the kards I remember they have flat top. The artwork reminds me Epirus (now Greece and Albania) silverwork style. I can see the obvious but I posted it here to find something more accurate if it is possible. A similar piece maybe.

8th December 2005, 02:08 PM	#6
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Also, the blade appears to be twist core damascus which is much more typical of Ottoman workmanship than Indian or Persian. With the Yataghan like bolster and style of damascus I think your observations are on the mark and would suggest a region under Ottoman influence.

8th December 2005, 02:25 PM	#7
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 182	This is far from the weapons I have the most experience with but my gut feeling is that this is an Indian knife,theres a similar knife in "Swords and Hilt Weapons" at the bottom of page 144,billed as Persian. I tend to think the grapes would be pewter or lead instead of zinc.