keris for comment

[A. G. Maisey]

Henk, as the person who first used the word "troll" in this thread I believe it is my place to clarify both the meaning of the word in this context and the way in which I used it.

I will once again repeat what I said, because it seems clear to me that either what I have written is unclear, or people are simply not reading what I wrote.

This is important:- if something is written it is vital that the words written should be read and understood, the words written should not have meanings read into them, nor should they be interpreted in any other way than the way they are written.

For the third time, this is what I wrote:

"To my way of thinking this sort of behaviour comes dangerously close to the behaviour one would expect of a Troll."

At no time did call Semar a troll.

What I said was that his perceived behaviour was in my opinion dangerously close to the type of behaviour that one would expect of a Troll.

There is fine, but extremely important distinction between accusing a person of being a Troll and expressing one's personal opinion that a type of behaviour appears to be Troll-like.

The meaning of the word "troll" in the context in which I used it should not be understood in the way it would be understood in common English usage.

We are here engaged in an internet discussion Forum, and in this context the word "troll" should be understood as internet jargon, which as far as I am aware is universal.

In internet jargon a troll is a person who deliberately makes provocative statements in an attempt to ignite adverse or inflammatory reactions from others participating in the discussion.

I now understand and accept that Semar did not intend to act in this way, and that my perception was in error, but that perception was absolutely understandable when we take into consideration the fact that our opinions were sought in the absence of incomplete information that had already permitted Semar to form a concrete opinion.

I acknowledge that there can be considerable difficulties for non- native English speakers in a discussion group of this kind, and this becomes even more clear when I read the comments that my post # 13 have generated, I can count more that just one incidence of misunderstanding, or misinterpretation of what I have written. Whether these misunderstandings are genuine, or whether they are intentional I have no intention of even considering, but that they exist at all seems to indicate that a more careful reading of a written comment is essential, prior to rushing into print.

Incidentally, where the meaning of a word is unclear this can be very easily checked by using google, these days it is not even necessary in many instances to access a dictionary.

There is no shame in seeking clarification of the meaning of a word. I get paid for writing English, and even though I am a native English speaker and have had very long practice in my use of the language, I still regularly use a dictionary or thesaurus, or even consult Dr. Google when I am writing or reading.

[Henk]

Alan,

Thank you for your comment.

I wanted to make the misunderstanding clear. Actually not for myself. As a matter of fact, in the comment you wrote just to me you are completely right. Better, i could have written this by myself.

Please Alan, do understand that i highly appreciate you as a person, a fellow forum member and last but not least, for your skills.

Certainly you're right.
This is important:- if something is written it is vital that the words written should be read and understood, the words written should not have meanings read into them, nor should they be interpreted in any other way than the way they are written.


Maybe it is the wrong attitude but when i read the threads on the forum and i'm sure many members will do it in the same way, i read and look for pleasure, certainly willing to learn but not studying the comments on each character. But of course i read carefully so that i understand what is written about the presented item, perhaps missing some minor details.

For the third time, this is what I wrote:

"To my way of thinking this sort of behaviour comes dangerously close to the behaviour one would expect of a Troll."

At no time did call Semar a troll.

Yes Alan, I noticed you did. But when i translate it in dutch and adress it to a dutch person, not directly being aware of the internet jargon, and believe me, a lot of people are not known with internet jargon, it will be taken as an direct insult. Although you explained clearly what you ment and despite the fact above in the first quote, i must admitt that i frowned my eyebrows when i read it for the first time in post #13.

There is no shame in seeking clarification of the meaning of a word. I get paid for writing English, and even though I am a native English speaker and have had very long practice in my use of the language, I still regularly use a dictionary or thesaurus, or even consult Dr. Google when I am writing or reading.

Alan, when i'm writing also for my profession at school i do the same. When i read posts on the forum or articles that really litterally should be understood and concern me personally, yes, i study it very carefully.

I only wanted to make clear the intentions of Semar.
As we say here in Holland, we didn't all studied at the university and have a masterdegree.
When Semar would translate your writing with a dictionary or thesaurus in combination with google, it will cost him days work and even then you can ask yourself the question, is the translation readable and understandable as it was originally written? I doubt it.

When i put you in the same situation as Semar and i would send you a text in dutch, i would be very curious to your translation and your understanding of the text.
But you are well educated Alan, and that makes a difference.

Please, let us enjoy and study weapons and not spoil our time to these conversations.

I do appreciate you highly Alan.

Regards, Henk

[David]

Gentlemen...i had truly hoped we had put this little bump in the road to bed.
Please rest assured Henk, that this topic has been discussed through PM with both Alan and Semar by our moderation staff and, i had hoped, been resolved already. It is fine that you are feeling empathy for your countryman and feel the need to come to his defense in this matter, but i do hope that i have left the door open to Semar to have any further discussions with me if he felt this problem was not already fully resolved. I think Alan has already been clear that he regrets the use of the word "troll" and has fully explained what his intended usage of the word was to begin with and that it is an inaccurate application in this case. I have been in private discussion with Semar so i do not think it is necessary for you at this point to step in to make Semar's intentions clear. He has already done that. We have already come to the conclusion that this was a matter of miscommunication based upon Semar's lack of English skills. I have already commended him privately for his efforts to communicate here in English as i would personally be at a loss to do the same with him in Dutch.
That said, along with your opening statement here that "on the end of the thread, i finally see the right conclussions" can only lead us to your last statement, "Please, let us enjoy and study weapons and not spoil our time to these conversations." So please Henk, let's do just that...

[semar]

henk hello thank you for explaining
let's just forget the misunderstanding
let's just continue with our passion the keris
and let's hope we make fewer mistakes in the new year and I wish everyone a wonderful Christmas and a happy new year


greetings Semar

[David]

Same here Semar...btw, you have sent me two messages now with not actual writing in them (just my own statement in the quotes). Please let me know if you are having problems with the messaging system. Happy Holidays!

[semar]

i make a mistake again i want to say thank you for the info



thank you semar

[Henk]

David,

Clear. End of discussion. I will do what i said at the end. That is so much nicer.