Omani khanjar

Kubur · 27th October 2014, 02:53 PM

A last word, for the one that I showed in this thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19163

I don't agree with you Ibrahiim.
It is not a bad Indian copy, believe me I had it in hands.
It is clearly 1970ties, but of a really good quality.
I can see a lot of bad and recent copies on ebay and on line, nothing to do with this one...
Now I agree that it is not "an ethnographic object"...

Kubur

kahnjar1 · 28th October 2014, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

A last word, for the one that I showed in this thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19163

I don't agree with you Ibrahiim.
It is not a bad Indian copy, believe me I had it in hands.
It is clearly 1970ties, but of a really good quality.
I can see a lot of bad and recent copies on ebay and on line, nothing to do with this one...
Now I agree that it is not "an ethnographic object"...

Kubur

I have to agree with Ibrahiim here....not in relation to the Indian origin, but the quality. The silver decoration on the hilt is obviously thin with a pressed decoration rather than engraved. I would also label this TOURIST....sorry Kubur

ariel · 28th October 2014, 08:56 AM

Taking into account that current jambias/khanjars are mass produced and serve as a mundane part of a daily male attire, what difference does it make?

A.alnakkas · 28th October 2014, 01:05 PM

double post

A.alnakkas · 28th October 2014, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Taking into account that current jambias/khanjars are mass produced and serve as a mundane part of a daily male attire, what difference does it make?

Thats not the case. Basically there is 3 levels of Omani khanjar production. The third and lowest quality ones are items produced by Bengali workers, these are items that are mass produced and generally has very little silver in it. The 2nd level of quality is items made by professional Pakistani and Indian workers who make items that I find equal to the first level.. which is Omani made items. The 2nd and 1st level are both quality items that arent made for mundane daily use, rather made for wearing during special occasions. Keep in mind that wearing the khanjar daily is no longer a practice in Oman, atleast not in the areas I have visited.

Kubur · 28th October 2014, 02:25 PM

Thank you Ariel!
I will put mine in the second level of al-Nakas definition...
As it looks quite good in hands.
Nevertheless I was so desperate that I got another one.
I don't think that this one is a bad one...
:-)
Kubur

blue lander · 28th October 2014, 03:42 PM

Is that one Saudi?

A.alnakkas · 28th October 2014, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Thank you Ariel!
I will put mine in the second level of al-Nakas definition...
As it looks quite good in hands.
Nevertheless I was so desperate that I got another one.
I don't think that this one is a bad one...
:-)
Kubur

Sadly it isnt. Its the lower end of quality. I saw plenty of them in Oman and Kuwait, heaviness and solid feel doesnt mean good quality really. When you get to handle the finer examples, you'll know what were talking about :-)

A.alnakkas · 28th October 2014, 10:05 PM

The last one is Saudi yes. Made in southern KSA, maker is probably alDojani.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th October 2014, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Thank you Ariel!
I will put mine in the second level of al-Nakas definition...
As it looks quite good in hands.
Nevertheless I was so desperate that I got another one.
I don't think that this one is a bad one...
:-)
Kubur

Salaams Kubur, So you have it correctly from fellow forum members that this is not an Omani Khanjar. There are a number of tell tale give aways shown here not least the very obvious Hilt form. Note that the scabbard compared to Omani style has quite an extra degree of turn typical of those from Saudia. See also the half loop decoration also typical just above the belt structure. UUUUUUU and lastly the inscription behind the crown. In addition there are two loops on the reverse near the top of the scabbard that are used to tie it to the broad belt ~not seen in Omani styles. I have this style as typical to the Asir region; previously Yemen.. which in the 1920s became part of KSA.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 · 30th October 2014, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Thank you Ariel!
I will put mine in the second level of al-Nakas definition...
As it looks quite good in hands.
Nevertheless I was so desperate that I got another one.
I don't think that this one is a bad one...
:-)
Kubur

This particular style of Khanjar was discussed at some length here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18700 where it was decided that the style was definitely from KSA but could either be from Al Hasa or Asir....refer to post #13 for differences between the two.
Stu

Richard G · 30th October 2014, 01:51 PM

The khunjar in post #6 has a fine silver face of closely placed pins. In my experience the material of the hilt itself is probably worthy of closer inspection.

The jambiya in post #14 is, as Khanjar1 says, now thought to be KSA. A convincing point, to me, as Ibrahim points out, is the two small lugs on the rear of the scabbard which would facilitate attachment to a wide Yemeni style belt, and be redundant on a true Omani khunjar. Ruth Hawley's book (1978) on Omani silver illustrates a similar jambiya, but on an Omani belt, which she attributes 'probably' to the Sharqiyah in Oman. This attribution may be wrong, but I think we can safely assume the khunjar was in Oman, when she acquired it. I stiil wouldn't bet my house some of these might not have been made in Oman.

The King Feisal Centre Exhibition catalogue has two jambiya with this type of scabbard (page 56) described as from Al Ahsa, 'contemporary' (1990) and 'Doojaniyan' . I often wondered what that meant. Now, thanks to Mr Alnakkas, I know. But, would the the inhabitants of Al Ahsa, which is a long way from the Asir wear their jambiya on a Yemeni type belt, or an Omani type ? Does anyone know more of Abdulaziz Al Dojani ? I am beginning to think he must have had a sizeable workshop, if we knew where it was (or is), some attributions might be more certain.

Regards
Richard

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th October 2014, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Taking into account that current jambias/khanjars are mass produced and serve as a mundane part of a daily male attire, what difference does it make?

Salaams Ariel, No they aren't and no they don't and for the difference it makes...read on..

There are still about 10 top class artisans in Oman making traditional Khanjars and belts. Actually as in the past there are specialists making various parts of this item and really probably only a few masters who can make the entire weapon..

This is far from mundane item and you surprise me with that comment but perhaps you have missed the point...

In Oman it has to be the most photographed and admired ethnographic and historical item ever! It is totally unique. It is the badge of office of the head of the Omani family and worn by commoner and royalty alike. This represents living, breathing, ethnographic arms at their very best...

How can that be mundane?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Kubur · 29th October 2014, 05:47 PM

Normally I collect only 19th century objects, so I'm a little bit disappointed.
But I know that you are ALL right...And I accept all these comments.
Anyway, at least, the last khanjar is an ethnographic object!

Regards,
Kubur

kahnjar1 · 30th October 2014, 05:37 AM

IMHO it is most unlikely that a 19th century (or earlier) Khanjar would appear thru the "normal" channels ie.Ebay etc. I think you would have to look at REPUTABLE dealers to find a good old one, and the price I believe would not be cheap. Good luck with your quest.

28th October 2014, 01:05 PM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	double post Last edited by A.alnakkas; 28th October 2014 at 02:52 PM.

30th October 2014, 01:51 PM	#12
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 411	The khunjar in post #6 has a fine silver face of closely placed pins. In my experience the material of the hilt itself is probably worthy of closer inspection. The jambiya in post #14 is, as Khanjar1 says, now thought to be KSA. A convincing point, to me, as Ibrahim points out, is the two small lugs on the rear of the scabbard which would facilitate attachment to a wide Yemeni style belt, and be redundant on a true Omani khunjar. Ruth Hawley's book (1978) on Omani silver illustrates a similar jambiya, but on an Omani belt, which she attributes 'probably' to the Sharqiyah in Oman. This attribution may be wrong, but I think we can safely assume the khunjar was in Oman, when she acquired it. I stiil wouldn't bet my house some of these might not have been made in Oman. The King Feisal Centre Exhibition catalogue has two jambiya with this type of scabbard (page 56) described as from Al Ahsa, 'contemporary' (1990) and 'Doojaniyan' . I often wondered what that meant. Now, thanks to Mr Alnakkas, I know. But, would the the inhabitants of Al Ahsa, which is a long way from the Asir wear their jambiya on a Yemeni type belt, or an Omani type ? Does anyone know more of Abdulaziz Al Dojani ? I am beginning to think he must have had a sizeable workshop, if we knew where it was (or is), some attributions might be more certain. Regards Richard Last edited by Richard G; 30th October 2014 at 02:07 PM.

27th October 2014, 02:53 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	A last word, for the one that I showed in this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19163 I don't agree with you Ibrahiim. It is not a bad Indian copy, believe me I had it in hands. It is clearly 1970ties, but of a really good quality. I can see a lot of bad and recent copies on ebay and on line, nothing to do with this one... Now I agree that it is not "an ethnographic object"... Kubur

28th October 2014, 08:56 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Taking into account that current jambias/khanjars are mass produced and serve as a mundane part of a daily male attire, what difference does it make?

28th October 2014, 02:25 PM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Thank you Ariel! I will put mine in the second level of al-Nakas definition... As it looks quite good in hands. Nevertheless I was so desperate that I got another one. I don't think that this one is a bad one... :-) Kubur Attached Images

28th October 2014, 03:42 PM	#7
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Is that one Saudi?

28th October 2014, 10:05 PM	#9
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	The last one is Saudi yes. Made in southern KSA, maker is probably alDojani.

29th October 2014, 05:47 PM	#14
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Normally I collect only 19th century objects, so I'm a little bit disappointed. But I know that you are ALL right...And I accept all these comments. Anyway, at least, the last khanjar is an ethnographic object! Regards, Kubur

30th October 2014, 05:37 AM	#15
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	IMHO it is most unlikely that a 19th century (or earlier) Khanjar would appear thru the "normal" channels ie.Ebay etc. I think you would have to look at REPUTABLE dealers to find a good old one, and the price I believe would not be cheap. Good luck with your quest.