My Katar Collection

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you very much Andrew.
Maybe I better stop writing on the forum and only look now and again, so I dont offend others.
Jens

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Thank you very much Andrew.
Maybe I better stop writing on the forum and only look now and again, so I dont offend others.
Jens

Yes, I agree. And you should divest yourself of any over-decorated, gaudy gold/silver/gem encrusted weapons collecting dust in your collection, too. I'll even split the shipping cost to my address in the US with you.

[JamesKelly]

Don't believe them, Jens - I am not offended.

Personally, words like "arrogant" and "prickly individual" have been used to describe me where I worked.

Yes, I do see the peacock your posted this time.

Having been primarily a gun & American history guy for the last three-score years, my 54-page book list has only recently added maybe 16 books on various ethnographic knives.

I really would appreciate some suggestions of books with illustrations of those stylized peacocks.

[Ian]

Jens:

I see four on the gilded one that you posted but only two on James' example. Is that correct?

Since raising peacocks was the hobby of wealthy nabobs and other dignitaries, does the presence of peacocks on weapons indicate an association with royalty or power?

Ian.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Ok I will reply on these mails as best I can.

Andrew, the reason while I have not sent them yet is, that the carton box I have is far too small and not strong enough - sorry. And all the boxes I have been looking at, seem to be even smaller :-).

I will not recommen any books, as some of them are quite expensive, and this could discurage some form buying books at all, but there are a few authors, which I think you should try to look up on the net. Robert Elgood, Thomas H. Hendley, Rajendralala Mitra, Bashir Mohamed, Susan Stronge, Stuard Cary Welsh and Mark Zebrowski. Enjoy the search. Btw the Marlborough House and the Sandringham books have not so long ago been reprinted by Ken Trotman, so you dont have to buy the editions from end of 1800. Sorry Andrew as I think you would have prefered this to be mentioned on another thread.

Not all of the katars have the peacocks, but a lot of them have. On both of the katars in the picture you can see four peacocks, two on the blade and two at the lower part of the hand guard. I know they are often 'hidden', so it is not always easy to see them, if you dont know they are. The peacocks always have their heads towards each other, and their tails meet in the middle of the blade, to form the Kundalini Flame/The Tree of life/a cypress (for more information of the first two read some Yoga books).

Collecting Indian weapons is a world of its own. All the different forms, changing a bit from place to place, the different fashions of decoration, and the forms long gone.

I havge written an article about the age of the katar, and took it back to the Orissa in the 10th century - so it is a very old weapon type, and when you look at the age it has not changed much.

Jens



For the peacocks and the four cusped arch design see Elgood 2004.

[JamesKelly]

Jens -
Thanks for the suggested authors. I have a couple of them (including your article in Arms & Armour V10 #1) & will slowly order more.

In both fire- and cold arms, published works have useful information but often severely limited illustrations.
My immediate question is how do I recognize a peacock that has been (to my eye) stylized out of all resemblance to anything avian. There is, so far as I know, no book entitled Peacocks on Indian Weapons. For that matter I've found no works specifically on katars, or on shields. Therefore, I have begun assembling my own computer "books" for these fields. For some time I've found this approach helpful in certain narrow firearms interests.
This site is a wonderful source. And the better dealers have numerous & often superb photos.

[Jens Nordlunde]

James,
Gold, Silver and Bronze from Mughal India by Zebrowski. You will not find any weapons in the book, but what you will find is very early items of peacocks and a lot of different kinds of decoration, also usen on weapons - and they are dated.
The Adventurers of Hamza and other early books showing miniatures could be a big help as well.
I do agree with you, that many things shown on weapons are hidden so you cant see them unless you know where they are, and what they represent.
Now it is up to you, how big your interest in Indian weapons is, if you will go on researching as I have for decades, or if you will give up now.
I wish you all the best, as I think I will stop writing on the forum, so others can take over.
Jens

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Thank you very much Andrew.
Maybe I better stop writing on the forum and only look now and again, so I dont offend others.
Jens

Jens your incredible knowledge on the subject is well known and respected by anyone who has read your posts, people who do not have much knowledge on the subject often do not post because they are afraid that the experts on the subject will view their posts as amateur etc. It would be really helpful to recommend specific books since you obviously have already read the available ones, forum members such as myself many not be able to just start buying books randomly but if we know which book would help us with the item being discussed that would be of great use.