Interesting keris making video

[Richard Furrer]

I like the video quite a bit.

...reminds me of early African work.
I use the "pipe" containment method from time to time....good to know its traditional.

As to gold/iron alloys. I'd have to look at the binary phase diagrams for those two, but I'm sure some form of eutectic can be reached. I am not sure that new alloy would forge well or show any evidence of a gold color when completed.

Many cultures have the multi metal in their blade making processes. One would have to chemically test the final metal to see what, if any, made it through the processing. I'd imagine in trace amounts it neither helped nor hindered the process.

On thought on the gold:
I'm sure it never happened, but one may suspect that it requires several ounces of gold to make a thing...only to have that gold transmuted from the process and not being found in the final work piece.....it may have jumped in time and space to the neck and ears of the smith's wife some weeks later. Just a thought.

Ric

[A. G. Maisey]

As David has indicated, the yellowish stain that shows in the pamor in post #9 is the result of failure to get the blade perfectly clean and white prior to staining.

Another way that we can get very peculiar colours in a finished stain job is by using other than proven warangan, or other than laboratory quality arsenic trioxide.

However, what I'm looking at in post #9 gives every indication of failure to clean adequately prior to staining.

Richard, I think that you have a close to perfect understanding of the way gold given to a smith for inclusion in pamor could actually produce a favourable result for the smith --- and his wife.

[Pusaka]

I think we would have to consider the gold making an alloy with the nickel component of the meteorite as a higher possibility then an Iron/gold alloy being formed.

As far as I could understand it he put crushed meteorite, gold and that black material from the smelt into those tubes, I'm not sure if that black material is iron, nickel or nickel iron.

If you look at the first bowl of material he puts into the smelting furnace it looks almost copper colored, have no idea what that is.

[A. G. Maisey]

The text that flashes onto the screen is Indonesian, and that tells us that it is "biji besi" : "iron seed" that is put into the smelt, and a little later the Indonesian text again tells us that the product is "sponge iron".

[Pusaka]

Did a search for gold-nickel alloy and it confirms gold will combine with nickel to form an alloy, so it would appear there is a high possibility of the gold forming an alloy with the nickel component of the meteorite.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Pusaka, that's interesting, but in respect of the video that we have seen, the presence of both gold and meteoritic material is not yet confirmed.

As I have stated, I only half understand Krama Inggil, but I have had two native speakers of Javanese look at that video, and although they can follow the general gist of what is being said, they also cannot understand word for word.

If you are a speaker of Krama Inggil, perhaps you might be able to give us a better understanding of exactly what the commentator is saying and confirm for us that meteorite and gold are both included in the material used.

[Richard Furrer]

If I could see the entire process I could tell rather closely what is likely to be occurring with the metals. Analysis of the slags and each material along the way would confirm.

The issues with binary phases is that there relevance is under idea conditions...which smelting/forging is not.
One would need to take into account trace elements and the varied oxygen content.
Iron can alloy with many metals and it may have a a greater affinity then other metals so it may form stronger bonds then other metals and lock up the other metals...or oxygen or silicon may break that bond and do away with it in the final bloom trapping it in slag.
Smelting is a rather dynamic process.

In the end I like to concept of multi metal blades, but the reality may be something less than the fantasy.

Ric

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks Pusaka, that's interesting, but in respect of the video that we have seen, the presence of both gold and meteoritic material is not yet confirmed.

As I have stated, I only half understand Krama Inggil, but I have had two native speakers of Javanese look at that video, and although they can follow the general gist of what is being said, they also cannot understand word for word.

If you are a speaker of Krama Inggil, perhaps you might be able to give us a better understanding of exactly what the commentator is saying and confirm for us that meteorite and gold are both included in the material used.

I cannot understand fully what is being said but at 1:56 I think he mentions meteorite and at 1:58 one of the guys is putting what looks like a gold chain into one of the pipes.

In addition I did a search for the smith (his name is Empu Basuki) and found a few articles about him which says he uses gold, Silver, and Iron extracted from volcanic sand from Mt merapi and material from Solo river depending on the order