Maori Mere pounamu

ausjulius · 23rd July 2014, 04:29 AM

thanks i was born in northland near dargaville in n.z.
when we were kids wed play games like maoris and rangers hahaha ive never heard of other n.z. kids playing such a game it was always cowboys and indians or cops and robbers ect at my cousins place.. when wed play we'd have some rhymes like -
"im the ghost of hongi heke one more step and ill bite your teke" teke implying something phallic , then make some crazy war dance.
use flax flower stems and muskets and taiaha ..

wed use the wooden play equipment at school or a tree house as a pa (fortress) guys who captured by the maoris got eaten haha

it always interested me as to why the maori didnt have bows while most of Polynesia did.
my father had some place very small stone tips like arrow heads from the south island, but they were presumed to be whipping dart heads. long darts throw with a line or cord.
although im not sure they were awfully small.

the mere were close combat and dueling weapons. used like a meat cleaver or a dagger almost. lots of jabs to the face and neck.
in pictures the maori always have them out in hand and in paintings they are show stuck in the belt, but i find this hard to believe they were very valuable and fragile i sounder how they were carried when in use as the maori warrior would carry many weapons . adze, several clubs, axe, spear , taiaha ect.. when you see videos of melinesians i tribal fights they seem to stick all the weapons down the back of their laplap or loincloth wrapping but moris i just can imagine doing this with something valuable. .

in the past maori used long lances 15-20 feet long or more and javalins as their main weapons in massed combat, good for defending and attacking pa fortifications..
but most of these things became obsolescent before europeans arrived . as soon as one guy got a gun ... boom.. i believe that maori warfare became very ritualized with rules and rituals some decades prior to the arrival of europeans, things were getting very tribalism big tribes splitting into smaller and smaller ones each chief having a fortified village, instead of big confederations or kingdoms like hawaii, tonga or fiji... and so these types of weapons became more and more... unsporting.. and the close in dueling weapons and the fighting styles that go with them became more common. if you had a chief in the other village who you hated youd want to beat him in personal combat for everyone to see not see him stuck with a dart form some commoner..

that why the long maori weapons are so very rare today, while the short weapons are rather common..

VANDOO · 23rd July 2014, 02:03 PM

YOUR THEORY MAKES SENSE AS MOST OF THESE TRIBES SPLIT OFF AND WERE RELATED SO THOUGH THERE WERE DISAGREEMENTS AND FEUDS WITHIN THE FAMILY THEY DIDN'T WANT TO ACTUALLY EXTERMINATE THE OTHER TRIBES. THEY JUST WANTED TO SHOW SUPERIORITY OF PERSONS OR TRIBES. SO RULES, TABOOS AND TRADITIONS WERE SET UP SO HONOR COULD BE GAINED BY THE AMBITIOUS AND FACE COULD BE SAVED AND ORDER PRESERVED.
AND OF COURSE THE OCCASIONAL DINNER COULD BE SERVED

JADE IS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST STONES THERE IS AND NOT AS EASILY DAMAGED AS MOST OTHER STONE. THAT IS WHY IT HAS BEEN USED IN TOOLS AND WEAPONS THE WORLD OVER THRU HISTORY. IT IS OFTEN THE MOST VALUED IN MANY SOCIETY'S FOR THIS STRENGTH AS WELL AS ITS BEAUTY AND THE FEEL OF THE WELL POLISHED STONE. I AM SURE THE MERE WAS WELL LOOKED AFTER BY THOSE FEW WHO COULD OBTAIN ONE EITHER THRU WEALTH, RANK AND PRESTIGE OR IN BATTLE. HOW IT WAS SECURED IN BATTLE IF USING A LONGER WEAPON INITIALLY I DON'T KNOW BUT I AM SURE IT WAS KEPT SECURE AND PROTECTED FOR WHEN IT WAS NEEDED. IF A WARRIOR WAS FUMBLING ABOUT FOR HIS MERE OR DROPPED IT HE WAS LIKELY BOUND FOR AN EARLY MEETING WITH THE COOKING POT.

ausjulius · 23rd July 2014, 06:42 PM

yes so true. i really have never seen a good depection on how the mere were carried. other than stuck in the waist band. i would suspect there must have been a special flax pouch or basket for it. but all the collections ive seen any such item is absent. no maoris knowledgeable in the topic of maori weapons that ive spoken to had a really good answer either.
big problem is that photographers and artists from the 19th century liked people to unnaturally pose with weapons so it makes it hard.

yes the personal duels were a very big think in maori warfare in the 18th and early 19th centuary. but once guns got common place some poor low cast fello with a musket could kill with one shot from 100 meters even the most prestigious chiefly warrior,
sent the whole system into chaos, as you could not really avenge the death specifically with a challenge and you didnt know who killed who,
suddenly personal martial prowess was of much less importance compared to equipment and tactics..

with the guns , in n.z. you find many nicely carved muskets and breach-loaders and the odd pistol too all carved up nicely on the stocks.
but none ever attracted any prestige to them like a club or axe or taiaha because they killed from a distance and without connection to the victim..
where as some famous mere people know who was killed with it on what date where ect ect and who captures it from who when.

kronckew · 23rd July 2014, 07:20 PM

oops - i just noticed that my first post said 'est. 3-40 years'.

that should have read '30-40'

not that it matters much. probably was more accurate that way

post office's 'parcel force' notified me that my taiaha arrives tomorrow! after charging me a small fortune in VAT, duty, and a customs handling fee...
ive bought clubs in the UK for less

(p.s.-ausjulius, i've sent you a PM.)

kronckew · 24th July 2014, 11:31 AM

taiaha arrived. 1.45 meters of kiln dried Kauri wood.carved both sides, 4 abalone 'eyes' on spear end carving. feathers attached by a red string winding. 490 grams.from Kakahu Taonga Aotearoa

kronckew · 4th November 2014, 10:27 PM

just acquired a 'vintage' (mid 20th c.?) taiaha. this one is 2.5 in. longer than the one just above. also 60% heavier (949 gm) than the other's 600 gm. plain blade, fibre skirt rather than feathers, marks on blade from parry impacts, end have some wear from abrasion. blade end is sharper on this one, rather than squared off & flat like the other. couple of old worm holes. this appears to be more of a useable one than a display one. should arrive in a few days.

also found a patu that i bought solely for the wood, it's apparently nz purirri wood, a very dense & heavier than water wood. looks beautiful. probably not very old, but whattheheck. no lanyard, but looks like some wear at the lanyard hole. age & size not listed by vendor. ?.

kronckew · 7th November 2014, 03:34 PM

tiaha & patu have arrived. the taiaha is a nice heavy hard wood, surprisingly weighty compared to the other slightly shorter taiaha which is a NZ evergreen wood. this one just reaches the bottom of my chin, which i understand is about the right length for me.

oiled finish, not lacquered. 1 old wormhole that goes all the way thru & a couple shallow holes about 2mm deep. a number of dents from parrying as noted earlier. ill give it a few drinks of boiled linseed (flax) oil.

the newish patu has a clear urethane coating (would have preferred an oil finish), nice grain, couple shrinkage cracks near what look like knots in the wood that do not go all the way thru.. coating doesn't go all the way thru the lanyard hole which is fairly roughly bored. very sharp edges on the 'blade', 245 gm. 12" x 4" x 3/4". gave it a braided leather lanyard as a present. this one is not plastic.

24th July 2014, 11:31 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	taiaha arrived. 1.45 meters of kiln dried Kauri wood.carved both sides, 4 abalone 'eyes' on spear end carving. feathers attached by a red string winding. 490 grams.from Kakahu Taonga Aotearoa Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 24th July 2014 at 02:41 PM.

4th November 2014, 10:27 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	just acquired a 'vintage' (mid 20th c.?) taiaha. this one is 2.5 in. longer than the one just above. also 60% heavier (949 gm) than the other's 600 gm. plain blade, fibre skirt rather than feathers, marks on blade from parry impacts, end have some wear from abrasion. blade end is sharper on this one, rather than squared off & flat like the other. couple of old worm holes. this appears to be more of a useable one than a display one. should arrive in a few days. also found a patu that i bought solely for the wood, it's apparently nz purirri wood, a very dense & heavier than water wood. looks beautiful. probably not very old, but whattheheck. no lanyard, but looks like some wear at the lanyard hole. age & size not listed by vendor. ?. Attached Images

23rd July 2014, 04:29 AM	#1
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 446	thanks i was born in northland near dargaville in n.z. when we were kids wed play games like maoris and rangers hahaha ive never heard of other n.z. kids playing such a game it was always cowboys and indians or cops and robbers ect at my cousins place.. when wed play we'd have some rhymes like - "im the ghost of hongi heke one more step and ill bite your teke" teke implying something phallic , then make some crazy war dance. use flax flower stems and muskets and taiaha .. wed use the wooden play equipment at school or a tree house as a pa (fortress) guys who captured by the maoris got eaten haha it always interested me as to why the maori didnt have bows while most of Polynesia did. my father had some place very small stone tips like arrow heads from the south island, but they were presumed to be whipping dart heads. long darts throw with a line or cord. although im not sure they were awfully small. the mere were close combat and dueling weapons. used like a meat cleaver or a dagger almost. lots of jabs to the face and neck. in pictures the maori always have them out in hand and in paintings they are show stuck in the belt, but i find this hard to believe they were very valuable and fragile i sounder how they were carried when in use as the maori warrior would carry many weapons . adze, several clubs, axe, spear , taiaha ect.. when you see videos of melinesians i tribal fights they seem to stick all the weapons down the back of their laplap or loincloth wrapping but moris i just can imagine doing this with something valuable. . in the past maori used long lances 15-20 feet long or more and javalins as their main weapons in massed combat, good for defending and attacking pa fortifications.. but most of these things became obsolescent before europeans arrived . as soon as one guy got a gun ... boom.. i believe that maori warfare became very ritualized with rules and rituals some decades prior to the arrival of europeans, things were getting very tribalism big tribes splitting into smaller and smaller ones each chief having a fortified village, instead of big confederations or kingdoms like hawaii, tonga or fiji... and so these types of weapons became more and more... unsporting.. and the close in dueling weapons and the fighting styles that go with them became more common. if you had a chief in the other village who you hated youd want to beat him in personal combat for everyone to see not see him stuck with a dart form some commoner.. that why the long maori weapons are so very rare today, while the short weapons are rather common..

23rd July 2014, 02:03 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YOUR THEORY MAKES SENSE AS MOST OF THESE TRIBES SPLIT OFF AND WERE RELATED SO THOUGH THERE WERE DISAGREEMENTS AND FEUDS WITHIN THE FAMILY THEY DIDN'T WANT TO ACTUALLY EXTERMINATE THE OTHER TRIBES. THEY JUST WANTED TO SHOW SUPERIORITY OF PERSONS OR TRIBES. SO RULES, TABOOS AND TRADITIONS WERE SET UP SO HONOR COULD BE GAINED BY THE AMBITIOUS AND FACE COULD BE SAVED AND ORDER PRESERVED. AND OF COURSE THE OCCASIONAL DINNER COULD BE SERVED JADE IS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST STONES THERE IS AND NOT AS EASILY DAMAGED AS MOST OTHER STONE. THAT IS WHY IT HAS BEEN USED IN TOOLS AND WEAPONS THE WORLD OVER THRU HISTORY. IT IS OFTEN THE MOST VALUED IN MANY SOCIETY'S FOR THIS STRENGTH AS WELL AS ITS BEAUTY AND THE FEEL OF THE WELL POLISHED STONE. I AM SURE THE MERE WAS WELL LOOKED AFTER BY THOSE FEW WHO COULD OBTAIN ONE EITHER THRU WEALTH, RANK AND PRESTIGE OR IN BATTLE. HOW IT WAS SECURED IN BATTLE IF USING A LONGER WEAPON INITIALLY I DON'T KNOW BUT I AM SURE IT WAS KEPT SECURE AND PROTECTED FOR WHEN IT WAS NEEDED. IF A WARRIOR WAS FUMBLING ABOUT FOR HIS MERE OR DROPPED IT HE WAS LIKELY BOUND FOR AN EARLY MEETING WITH THE COOKING POT.

23rd July 2014, 06:42 PM	#3
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 446	yes so true. i really have never seen a good depection on how the mere were carried. other than stuck in the waist band. i would suspect there must have been a special flax pouch or basket for it. but all the collections ive seen any such item is absent. no maoris knowledgeable in the topic of maori weapons that ive spoken to had a really good answer either. big problem is that photographers and artists from the 19th century liked people to unnaturally pose with weapons so it makes it hard. yes the personal duels were a very big think in maori warfare in the 18th and early 19th centuary. but once guns got common place some poor low cast fello with a musket could kill with one shot from 100 meters even the most prestigious chiefly warrior, sent the whole system into chaos, as you could not really avenge the death specifically with a challenge and you didnt know who killed who, suddenly personal martial prowess was of much less importance compared to equipment and tactics.. with the guns , in n.z. you find many nicely carved muskets and breach-loaders and the odd pistol too all carved up nicely on the stocks. but none ever attracted any prestige to them like a club or axe or taiaha because they killed from a distance and without connection to the victim.. where as some famous mere people know who was killed with it on what date where ect ect and who captures it from who when.

23rd July 2014, 07:20 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	oops - i just noticed that my first post said 'est. 3-40 years'. that should have read '30-40' not that it matters much. probably was more accurate that way post office's 'parcel force' notified me that my taiaha arrives tomorrow! after charging me a small fortune in VAT, duty, and a customs handling fee... ive bought clubs in the UK for less (p.s.-ausjulius, i've sent you a PM.)

7th November 2014, 03:34 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	tiaha & patu have arrived. the taiaha is a nice heavy hard wood, surprisingly weighty compared to the other slightly shorter taiaha which is a NZ evergreen wood. this one just reaches the bottom of my chin, which i understand is about the right length for me. oiled finish, not lacquered. 1 old wormhole that goes all the way thru & a couple shallow holes about 2mm deep. a number of dents from parrying as noted earlier. ill give it a few drinks of boiled linseed (flax) oil. the newish patu has a clear urethane coating (would have preferred an oil finish), nice grain, couple shrinkage cracks near what look like knots in the wood that do not go all the way thru.. coating doesn't go all the way thru the lanyard hole which is fairly roughly bored. very sharp edges on the 'blade', 245 gm. 12" x 4" x 3/4". gave it a braided leather lanyard as a present. this one is not plastic.