Which pamor is this?

A. G. Maisey · 15th July 2014, 03:34 PM

I cannot say with any certainty that it is recent, that is, recent in the sense of since 1980 --- I would need to handle it to give an opinion on that, but the gandik and kembang kacang are very typical of Madura, the rondha is a form frequently found in Madura keris, and this style of pamor work is also common from Sumenep, both pre-WWII and since the revival. It is very difficult to assess iron from a photo, but that too has the appearance of iron used in some Madura keris.

I note that Semar has suggested sekar lampes, but I do not think we can accept that, because sekar lampes is a pamor miring, not a pamor mlumah, and this keris is pamor mlumah with manipulated surface.

Recently there seems to have been a lot of interest in Cirebon keris, and I have seen a lot of photos and heard stories of keris of "Cirebon" tangguh --- its almost as if Cirebon keris have become much more plentiful than they have been for the last 30 years or so.

I would most humbly suggest that before anybody nominates a blade for tangguh Cirebon that they might do well to look at what Ngabehi Wirosoekadgo has to say about tangguh Cirebon in "Serat Panangguhing Duwung", and then to spend a little time with "Silsilah Keturunan Empu Tanah Jawa".

There is no problem at all in nominating a complete keris as Cirebon, but almost invariably that complete keris will have a blade from some place other than Cirebon.

Jean · 23rd July 2014, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I would most humbly suggest that before anybody nominates a blade for tangguh Cirebon that they might do well to look at what Ngabehi Wirosoekadgo has to say about tangguh Cirebon in "Serat Panangguhing Duwung", and then to spend a little time with "Silsilah Keturunan Empu Tanah Jawa".

Hello Alan,
Do you know how can we get these publications and is there any translation in English?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 23rd July 2014, 02:33 PM

Jean, to the best of my knowledge there is no English translation available for either of these works.

"--Panangguhing--" was translated into Indonesian and republished a few years ago, I think. I believe I have a copy of this and I've been trying to find it but I cannot. What I have are a couple of copies of the original, one is a photocopy, and I had a translation done into Indonesian about 30 years ago. Its a bad translation, and the original Javanese uses a lot of words that nobody I know can understand.

"--Silsilah--" has never been translated for public use, nor published for public use, as far as I am aware. However there are lots of copies of it floating around if you know the right people. The problem used to be that the people who had a copy would not make it available to others unless they were very close to them.

A couple of recent books have drawn upon Silsilah, but both authors have made errors in what they have drawn from it.

kulbuntet · 15th August 2014, 06:34 PM

I am not sure, but it could be a not perfect executed or variant of bonang serenteng.

David · 15th August 2014, 10:36 PM

Regardless of age or origin i must say that i do like this keris. The pamor mimicking etch on the front part of the gander is a nice and elegant ensemble touch.

VVV · 17th August 2014, 12:14 PM

Thanks David,

Yes, I like this one, too, even if I don't know which pamor it is (or supposed to be) etc.

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 18th August 2014, 02:09 AM

Yes, agreed, it is a nice keris, not a thing wrong with it, but the blade is not what it is presented as, ie, Cirebon.

15th July 2014, 03:34 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I cannot say with any certainty that it is recent, that is, recent in the sense of since 1980 --- I would need to handle it to give an opinion on that, but the gandik and kembang kacang are very typical of Madura, the rondha is a form frequently found in Madura keris, and this style of pamor work is also common from Sumenep, both pre-WWII and since the revival. It is very difficult to assess iron from a photo, but that too has the appearance of iron used in some Madura keris. I note that Semar has suggested sekar lampes, but I do not think we can accept that, because sekar lampes is a pamor miring, not a pamor mlumah, and this keris is pamor mlumah with manipulated surface. Recently there seems to have been a lot of interest in Cirebon keris, and I have seen a lot of photos and heard stories of keris of "Cirebon" tangguh --- its almost as if Cirebon keris have become much more plentiful than they have been for the last 30 years or so. I would most humbly suggest that before anybody nominates a blade for tangguh Cirebon that they might do well to look at what Ngabehi Wirosoekadgo has to say about tangguh Cirebon in "Serat Panangguhing Duwung", and then to spend a little time with "Silsilah Keturunan Empu Tanah Jawa". There is no problem at all in nominating a complete keris as Cirebon, but almost invariably that complete keris will have a blade from some place other than Cirebon.

23rd July 2014, 02:33 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Jean, to the best of my knowledge there is no English translation available for either of these works. "--Panangguhing--" was translated into Indonesian and republished a few years ago, I think. I believe I have a copy of this and I've been trying to find it but I cannot. What I have are a couple of copies of the original, one is a photocopy, and I had a translation done into Indonesian about 30 years ago. Its a bad translation, and the original Javanese uses a lot of words that nobody I know can understand. "--Silsilah--" has never been translated for public use, nor published for public use, as far as I am aware. However there are lots of copies of it floating around if you know the right people. The problem used to be that the people who had a copy would not make it available to others unless they were very close to them. A couple of recent books have drawn upon Silsilah, but both authors have made errors in what they have drawn from it.

15th August 2014, 06:34 PM	#4
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	I am not sure, but it could be a not perfect executed or variant of bonang serenteng.

15th August 2014, 10:36 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Regardless of age or origin i must say that i do like this keris. The pamor mimicking etch on the front part of the gander is a nice and elegant ensemble touch.

17th August 2014, 12:14 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks David, Yes, I like this one, too, even if I don't know which pamor it is (or supposed to be) etc. Michael

18th August 2014, 02:09 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes, agreed, it is a nice keris, not a thing wrong with it, but the blade is not what it is presented as, ie, Cirebon.