Double disc pommel kaskara

[CharlesS]

While the hilt and double pommel discs are interesting to be sure, I am more fascinated by the superb quality of the wootz blade.

For me it is even more proof that wootz can be found even in the least likely places in the Islamic world.

Thanks so much for these pics Iain.

[Gavin Nugent]

Orez Perski shows a similar blade, figures 101a & b as 18th century...personally though I am not convinced this is that old of a blade though.

The sword appears to be fully museum conserved too...kinda would have liked to know the scabbard fittings as the pommel is real interesting.

Gavin

[Iain]

Originally Posted by SwordsAntiqueWeapons

Orez Perski shows a similar blade, figures 101a & b as 18th century...personally though I am not convinced this is that old of a blade though.

The sword appears to be fully museum conserved too...kinda would have liked to know the scabbard fittings as the pommel is real interesting.

Gavin

I checked through my notes on this one. According to Nickel, likely collected after the Siege of Omdurman and acquired by the MET along with several other very good swords.

It seems to be 19th century Qajar revival. The cartouche reads Ali of Shiraz the maker, on the opposite side the name and title of Sultan Nasir ad Din Shah Qajar (1848-1896).

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Iain

I checked through my notes on this one. According to Nickel, likely collected after the Siege of Omdurman and acquired by the MET along with several other very good swords.

It seems to be 19th century Qajar revival. The cartouche reads Ali of Shiraz the maker, on the opposite side the name and title of Sultan Nasir ad Din Shah Qajar (1848-1896).

Iain,

Those dates and the Qajar attribution help explain both the type of wootz, and the snake motif....both more common on Qajar era pieces.

Still fascinates me that it found its way to the Sudan.

Like Gavin, I'd love to know what the original scabbard looked like.

[Iain]

An item such as this sword blade seems perhaps most likely to have arrived into the Sudan as a diplomatic gift. Perhaps it is also within the realm of possibility that some Sudanese would have journeyed to Persia in the 19th century due to the shared religious connect of both areas being Shi'a.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Iain

An item such as this sword blade seems perhaps most likely to have arrived into the Sudan as a diplomatic gift. Perhaps it is also within the realm of possibility that some Sudanese would have journeyed to Persia in the 19th century due to the shared religious connect of both areas being Shi'a.

I am inclined to agree Iain, and going through old notes I find that there were indeed many examples of imports from Persia in arms and armour in the Sudan, I believe coming in through Suakin. I believe that profound Sufi presence in Darfur may have played important part in some of the circumstances with these arms and motif found in many cases.

I must admit I have never seen the dual headed snake, however it is tempting to think of possible allusion to the Sword Dhu'l Faqar and its dual blade theme.
The snake is often seen on the Darfur blades incorporated with the lohr (prayer board) type motif with crescent moons etc and in other notes I found that in certain aspects the snake may have associations representing a holy person. It is noted elsewhere that the snake represents either Moses himself or his staff which of course became a snake.

In addition to the remarkable quality and being a wootz blade, this carved out snake motif is most unusual, and the cartouche as well. It does seem of diplomatic stature.

The double discoid pommel seems to align with other kaskara hilts of this type known in Darfur which were carried by nobility. These usually had double spheres hollowed out to hold beans or pebbles and were rattled loudly in feigned charges toward prisoners or other situations to emphasize power or instill fear as the sword was furiously brandished.

[Edster]

Hi Iain,

Could we say that this particular sword is indeed not a kaskara? While the blade is magnificent, it has a tapered profile and is narrower than the traditional form. Kaskarae as we know them use either trade, or local cast or forged blades not wootz. The only attribute that would point to kaskara is the cross guard, certainly not the double pommel.

So the question is "what does a kaskara make?

Ed

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Edster

Hi Iain,

Could we say that this particular sword is indeed not a kaskara? While the blade is magnificent, it has a tapered profile and is narrower than the traditional form. Kaskarae as we know them use either trade, or local cast or forged blades not wootz. The only attribute that would point to kaskara is the cross guard, certainly not the double pommel.

So the question is "what does a kaskara make?

Ed

I would consider this a variant form, and the hilt elements reflect good degree of similarity to kaskaras from Darfur regions (Reed, 1987). The blade itself is certainly an anomaly, but the term kaskara itself is a derivative term not used for these broadswords locally as they are termed sa'if as I understand.

[Gavin Nugent]

I would consider the blade as a trade blade, albeit a little more special and from a region not normally though of....Persian smith umped out a lot of trade blades too...

Gavin

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Edster

Hi Iain,

Could we say that this particular sword is indeed not a kaskara? While the blade is magnificent, it has a tapered profile and is narrower than the traditional form. Kaskarae as we know them use either trade, or local cast or forged blades not wootz. The only attribute that would point to kaskara is the cross guard, certainly not the double pommel.

So the question is "what does a kaskara make?

Ed

Hi Ed,

This is quite the question! But I'll give you my take on it, which is heavily influenced by my experiences with takouba as well.

Jim and Gav have covered some excellent points already.

Firstly the term kaskara has an odd journey into the lexicon of the western collector. I've written about this in the past and won't rehash all the details, however it is central Sudanese sword derived from Kanuri and appearing as a loan word in diverse areas including Bagirmi. This in itself is interesting but not overly useful as it simply means sword. So, from a linguistic point of view kaskara means nothing specific, only the definition collectors have come to associate with the general pattern of these swords.

The blade profile of kaskara are usually quite similar, but in my view this is due to the use of trade blades, often European, than any particular local requirement. The blades were in certain general proportions and local manufacture tended to follow along the same lines.However any good piece of steel seems to have been used. Blades originally found in Ethopian saif, sabre blades and more. This particular Persian blade could also be termed a "trade" blade of sorts and follows the general proportions of a typical kaskara. It is straight, double edged of about the typical length and of a similar tip form.

The hilt as Jim notes is of a sub type that while rare, is certainly known. I'm attaching a photo from the armoury at Leeds (photo credit goes to the Akaal Arms blog).

So, what does make a kaskara? For me it's the same thing that makes a takouba. A particular style of hilting. In this case the pommel form and distinctive cross guard married to a straight, double edged blade, encompassing the most distinctive elements usually observed in a Sudanese broadsword.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by SwordsAntiqueWeapons

Orez Perski shows .....
Gavin

Orez Perski is not an author: it simply means "Persian Weapons" in Polish.
The chief editor of this book was Antoni Romuald Chodynski.

The lay-out of the cover page confused many people, who used the title as the author's name.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

For snake worship in Africa see http://archive.org/stream/serpentwor...1hamb_djvu.txt

[Jim McDougall]

Iain you have described these circumstances as always perfectly and eloquently! I think Lee once described the use of a term to describe a type of item collectively the suffix NOS (=not otherwise specified).

Ariel thank you for the clarification on that book title, I think Gav was actually referring to the title in that sense as in discussion using vernacular we often used predominant term or authors name for brevity. I often term that reference simply 'Perski' in conversation without thinking of the literal meaning. It is good to note here however for the readers, and much appreciated.

Gav, good point on the trade blade aspect, and in that sense this one would be rather at the high end of the spectrum in that it may well be a blade intended either diplomatically or 'promotionally'. Clearly it went to a person of standing as we have noted that these unusual variant hilts were usually used by high ranking officials or nobility.

Ibrahiim, thank you very much for the link to the snake worship aspects, and indeed the snake becomes a most important icon and symbol in many of these African cultures. It is always difficult to presume meanings or purpose in the subjective nature of tradition and superstition, and good to consider the aspects collectively before dismissing certain possibilities.

[Edster]

I have tried twice to post a reply, but neither has been accepted. Will try again on another thread in the future,

Ed

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Edster

I have tried twice to post a reply, but neither has been accepted. Will try again on another thread in the future,

Ed

Hi Ed,

Sometimes I have problems with the forum software timing out when I post. Also if you try and post quickly in succession it sometimes won't let you. Sounds like just a forum software glitch.