Tulwar with some unusual modifications

blue lander · 5th June 2014, 10:03 PM

I took these pictures with a pretty good camera but they came out blurry for some reason. I think my hand was shaking. I'll try again tomorrow.

spiral · 5th June 2014, 10:28 PM

The "door knob" pommel is welded on with modern equipment... So Id guess an amalgamation of bits... {Or "associated" , as the poshest auction houses say, knowing most buyers don't understand the reality of that expression. { lots of random different age pieces stuck together with, glue,Weld & even bolts & screws to make a few extra quid out of the junk bin = "associated" I London,Paris & New York..

}

Spiral

blue lander · 5th June 2014, 10:58 PM

If I may ask, if it was up to you would you leave this frankenstein as it is or would you free the blade and pair it with at $50 hilt from ebay. I am madly in love with this skull crushing blade but the hilt doesn't do anything for me if it isn't historically interesting.

Rick · 6th June 2014, 01:42 AM

I don't hold out much hope for any part of the ensemble .

Would suggest a more discriminating eye ?

Gavin Nugent · 6th June 2014, 03:35 AM

With regards to the hilts construction, they are made from 9 pieces typically...rarer examples such as silver ones may also have been made from multiple pieces but when finished would appear as a single piece.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=tulwar+hilts

Gavin

spiral · 6th June 2014, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

If I may ask, if it was up to you would you leave this frankenstein as it is or would you free the blade and pair it with at $50 hilt from ebay. I am madly in love with this skull crushing blade but the hilt doesn't do anything for me if it isn't historically interesting.

I wouldn't have bought it unless it was the price of a bag of chips....

Even then I don't know what I would do with it. If the blade turned out to be laminated/wootz or well sprung I might re.handle it... otherwise not.

That could be just throwing good money after bad...

But your the man to decide what's useful or collectable to you.

Spiral

blue lander · 6th June 2014, 06:57 PM

Well, I got it for around half the prices of the cheapest Tulwar I've seen go up for auction. I'm just glad it doesn't have "MADE IN INDIA" stamped on it.

I've attached some closeups of the blade steel. There does appear to be some layering but I don't see any evidence of a watered steel pattern. I'll give it a few hours in some diluted PCB etchant and see what happens.

Jim McDougall · 6th June 2014, 08:52 PM

Gav, thank you for that information and for the link ...that was a great and informative thread and I had forgotten it altogether. I had no idea these hilts were made in 9 pieces!

B.L. as far as my opinion on this, I would say leave it alone and focus on the blade, which clearly has its own history before being 'refurbished'. As Spiral has noted, the eloquent smokescreen used by these upper echelon firms use the term 'associated' and often even 'composite' (rather like the term 'antique' describing garage sale junk, just with a higher price). In collectors jargon these kinds of pieces are 'put together' or 'mules'.

Indeed in many colonial regions and tribal cultures the enterprise of creating souveniers for tourists as well as occupying forces etc is a thriving commerce. However, to paint this entire strata of arms with the broad brush of tourist junk and dismiss any possibility of genuine tribal use is often a bit arbitrary despite its high probability.

In the expanse of Afghan regions into the remote tribal areas of northwest India it remains possible for such ersatz creations to remain in use in at least some degree, and has been the case for many years. Native artisans who produce reproductions or traditional items for commercial purposes are remarkably skilled, and this profoundly rough work to me still seems like field work with pragmatic intent.

I have seen 17th century blades mounted with modern, but traditional hilts, which are admittedly less than appealing. However this at least has some age to all components, and in my perception a good context for this fascinating blade. I'd leave it alone, and enjoy imagining the possibilities of the life of the blade in earlier times.

Gavin Nugent · 6th June 2014, 11:58 PM

Thanks Jim,

I say typically when I refer to 9, there are 8 piece examples, 10, 11 & 12 too....just my observations.

Gavin

blue lander · 7th June 2014, 12:10 AM

Thanks Jim, I think I'll leave it as is. I'd have to double my money into it to get even a basic hilt and then it'd be just another low end Tulwar. As it is, it's interesting at least even if it's ugly. And as you say it shows that it's had an interesting life.

I've given it an hour with diluted PCB etchant, nothing interesting's popped up so far. It just turned the blade frosty gray. I'll give it a few more treatments and polish it before I give up.

6th June 2014, 06:57 PM	#7
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Well, I got it for around half the prices of the cheapest Tulwar I've seen go up for auction. I'm just glad it doesn't have "MADE IN INDIA" stamped on it. I've attached some closeups of the blade steel. There does appear to be some layering but I don't see any evidence of a watered steel pattern. I'll give it a few hours in some diluted PCB etchant and see what happens. Attached Images

7th June 2014, 12:10 AM	#10
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks Jim, I think I'll leave it as is. I'd have to double my money into it to get even a basic hilt and then it'd be just another low end Tulwar. As it is, it's interesting at least even if it's ugly. And as you say it shows that it's had an interesting life. I've given it an hour with diluted PCB etchant, nothing interesting's popped up so far. It just turned the blade frosty gray. I'll give it a few more treatments and polish it before I give up. Attached Images

5th June 2014, 10:03 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I took these pictures with a pretty good camera but they came out blurry for some reason. I think my hand was shaking. I'll try again tomorrow.

5th June 2014, 10:28 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	The "door knob" pommel is welded on with modern equipment... So Id guess an amalgamation of bits... {Or "associated" , as the poshest auction houses say, knowing most buyers don't understand the reality of that expression. { lots of random different age pieces stuck together with, glue,Weld & even bolts & screws to make a few extra quid out of the junk bin = "associated" I London,Paris & New York.. } Spiral

5th June 2014, 10:58 PM	#3
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	If I may ask, if it was up to you would you leave this frankenstein as it is or would you free the blade and pair it with at $50 hilt from ebay. I am madly in love with this skull crushing blade but the hilt doesn't do anything for me if it isn't historically interesting.

6th June 2014, 01:42 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	I don't hold out much hope for any part of the ensemble . Would suggest a more discriminating eye ?

6th June 2014, 03:35 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	With regards to the hilts construction, they are made from 9 pieces typically...rarer examples such as silver ones may also have been made from multiple pieces but when finished would appear as a single piece. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=tulwar+hilts Gavin

6th June 2014, 08:52 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Gav, thank you for that information and for the link ...that was a great and informative thread and I had forgotten it altogether. I had no idea these hilts were made in 9 pieces! B.L. as far as my opinion on this, I would say leave it alone and focus on the blade, which clearly has its own history before being 'refurbished'. As Spiral has noted, the eloquent smokescreen used by these upper echelon firms use the term 'associated' and often even 'composite' (rather like the term 'antique' describing garage sale junk, just with a higher price). In collectors jargon these kinds of pieces are 'put together' or 'mules'. Indeed in many colonial regions and tribal cultures the enterprise of creating souveniers for tourists as well as occupying forces etc is a thriving commerce. However, to paint this entire strata of arms with the broad brush of tourist junk and dismiss any possibility of genuine tribal use is often a bit arbitrary despite its high probability. In the expanse of Afghan regions into the remote tribal areas of northwest India it remains possible for such ersatz creations to remain in use in at least some degree, and has been the case for many years. Native artisans who produce reproductions or traditional items for commercial purposes are remarkably skilled, and this profoundly rough work to me still seems like field work with pragmatic intent. I have seen 17th century blades mounted with modern, but traditional hilts, which are admittedly less than appealing. However this at least has some age to all components, and in my perception a good context for this fascinating blade. I'd leave it alone, and enjoy imagining the possibilities of the life of the blade in earlier times.

6th June 2014, 11:58 PM	#9
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks Jim, I say typically when I refer to 9, there are 8 piece examples, 10, 11 & 12 too....just my observations. Gavin