Oman, Morocco or Zanzibar?

[blue lander]

You're right, I had no idea they had been relisted. My apologies. If a mod could delete the photos I'd appreciate it.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It may be worth observing http://www.qucosa.de/fileadmin/data/..._02_athman.pdf for a comprehensive look at Swahili wood carving...which also mentions early settlers from North Africa...My search is aimed at identification of a Zanzibar Hub production centre (or not) for Nimcha hilts...

It seems apparent that the VIP style of Omani Zanzibari Ivory and Gold hilts were produced by artesans in Zanzibar, however, was there a manufacturing unit for the other well made sturdy Rosewood or Rhino Hilts with substantial ironwork guards?...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Some comparisons in the Pommel of two Zanzibari Nimcha ~ a decorative design which appears to be some sort of leaf design...perhaps a herb?... in silver.

Shown also is a rough hewn copy probably Yemeni of the same motiff...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Shown also is a rough hewn copy probably Yemeni of the same motiff...

The nimcha in question. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=nimcha
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

I had not noticed the curious stylized pommel plate on these nimchas Ibrahiim, interesting element. The simplistic design here seems to recall the 'calyx' type flourish usually found on the back of blades right at the hilt where the blade enters. It seems an extension of the backstrap and is typically a 'leaf' type shape, characteristic on Central Asian weapons such as Khyber knives and pesh kabz.
Another stylized image would be the component on scabbard throat mounts of Yemeni sa'if which is often termed the 'aghreb' (=scorpion?). These mounts are apparently fashioned in Hyderabad in India, and of course well within the trade sphere to Arabia and further to Zanzibar.

The influences of Central Asian arms and those from India were of course well represented in Ottoman contexts with mercenary forces which were largely present in their forces.

Though highly stylized these sometimes roughly presented forms still carry the nuance of the tradition and symbolism on the more elegant examples of these arms. While this comparison is admittedly tenuous and speculative, it seems worthy of consideration.

The Schimmelbusch family was a dynasty of swordsmiths in Solingen from beginning of 17th century to end of the 19th. They began using the shooting star symbol in 1777, and these makers were apparently one of the more prolific suppliers of blades to Red Sea trade, which included Zanzibar. Like other Solingen producers, they of course only supplied blades, but not hilts

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I had not noticed the curious stylized pommel plate on these nimchas Ibrahiim, interesting element. The simplistic design here seems to recall the 'calyx' type flourish usually found on the back of blades right at the hilt where the blade enters. It seems an extension of the backstrap and is typically a 'leaf' type shape, characteristic on Central Asian weapons such as Khyber knives and pesh kabz.
Another stylized image would be the component on scabbard throat mounts of Yemeni sa'if which is often termed the 'aghreb' (=scorpion?). These mounts are apparently fashioned in Hyderabad in India, and of course well within the trade sphere to Arabia and further to Zanzibar.

The influences of Central Asian arms and those from India were of course well represented in Ottoman contexts with mercenary forces which were largely present in their forces.

Though highly stylized these sometimes roughly presented forms still carry the nuance of the tradition and symbolism on the more elegant examples of these arms. While this comparison is admittedly tenuous and speculative, it seems worthy of consideration.

The Schimmelbusch family was a dynasty of swordsmiths in Solingen from beginning of 17th century to end of the 19th. They began using the shooting star symbol in 1777, and these makers were apparently one of the more prolific suppliers of blades to Red Sea trade, which included Zanzibar. Like other Solingen producers, they of course only supplied blades, but not hilts

Hi Jim,
The silver decoration is separate and is not part of the backstrap. My pic has been used above to illustrate. Here it is again.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Jim,
The silver decoration is separate and is not part of the backstrap. My pic has been used above to illustrate. Here it is again.
Stu

Khanjar 1, Jim, Norman ~ Salaams all;

Khanjar 1 That leaf pattern...Its identical .. Absolutely to the other Nimcha ...and so are the quillons. That means we could be looking at the same manufacturing base.. My thoughts are that this could be foliage or plant based... herbal or spice related thus the link to perhaps Zanzibar (Nutmeg for example). It could be scorpion in style thus Hyderabad enters the scene as pointed out by Jim above...It is my view that this type of work (and it is very specific and of a high quality compared to the roughly hewn Yemeni type) could in fact be military~ and currently the chase is on to track one down. It would not surprise me at all to discover the weapon as an issue weapon to Omani Military... Navy?...Officers in the 19th C.

Jim Thanks for the heads up on Hyderabad ... I am fairly confident that this hilt mark is a pointer to the manufacturing base of the hilts unless it transpires the emblem was added later after the hilts were delivered. Could it be that the hilts were made either in Zanzibar in which case I need to see the top of the pommels on the gold and Ivory items to compare.. or are we possibly looking at Hyderabadi style, imported hilts. Naturally I have not ruled out Hadramaut. I remember a potential weapon from there with almost the same pommel decorationon in brass http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...nzibari+nimcha

Norman..Yes; superb sword (I may be wrong about the pommel top on yours as it has the superb quillons of the Ivory and Gold Zanzibari Nimcha. Maybe it just fell off and got replaced. I have some notes on that sword somewhere...and I have added those to your fine thread on the subject...at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ighlight=nimcha

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Jim,
The silver decoration is separate and is not part of the backstrap. My pic has been used above to illustrate. Here it is again.
Stu

Thanks Stu, what I meant in suggesting the 'calyx' type fixture or device in motif on Central Asian edged weapons' backstraps was the basic gestalt in its stylized botanical context......not that here it was part of the backstrap.
Sorry for not being more clear.

Ibrahiim, on these almost munitions grade examples, this highly stylized and virtually vestigial representation as a fixture on the pommel of these nimchas does not seem likely to be intended as an emblem or distinguishing feature.
I do like the idea of seeking indigenous botanical association in motif though. I know that with Daghestani weapons for example, the botanical representation of vines etc are sometimes key in identifying regional work, from what I have been told.

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please see http://badger.uvm.edu/omeka/exhibits...02010/item/574 for an interesting Nimcha said to be the work of a German sword maker called Schimmelbusch.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi