Late Gothic Crossbows and Accouterments

Matchlock · 20th March 2014, 12:37 PM

No post

Micke D · 21st March 2014, 05:20 PM

Hello Michael!

First you got my hope up for visiting this collection someday

, but now my hope is almost gone again

.

It's so sad with that kind of trouble to get some simple photos taken, and that you had to pay for them, and in bad quality at that. But that seems to be the way of many museums around the world; the objects are theirs and theirs alone. So studying the crossbows seems to be hard to arrange.

I found out about these crossbows in Egon Harmuths book , ‘Die Armbrust. He writes somewhere in the book,( I can’t find the page right now), about 24 war crossbows kept at the same place since medieval times. That started my interest and my want to see them some day.

Later I found out that Holger Richter has a chapter about these crossbows, 25 he says, in his book, ‘Die Hornbogenarmbrust’. Many of the bows covered with hunting designs and the coat of arms of Matthias Corvinus, the king of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia, who died in Vienna in 1490.

I have also found an article by Dr Julius Bielz from 1934, but sadly the copy is more or less as bad as your photo.

Micke D · 21st March 2014, 05:37 PM

These two photos are of the crossbows on display at the Brukenthal Museum. They were taken by a Romanian guy who is into 15th c re-enactment and was shown at The Armour Archive a few years ago.

Matchlock · 21st March 2014, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micke D

These two photos are of the crossbows on display at the Brukenthal Museum. They were taken by a Romanian guy who is into 15th c re-enactment and was shown at The Armour Archive a few years ago.

Hi Micke,

Thank you so much indeed for these documents!

I photoshoped the photos a bit, et voilà, one can at least see some details. The main problem seems to be that they were taken in low resolution.

I'm trying to talk my friend who is totally into Gothic crossbows into flying to Sibiu and taking pictures himself. Sadly, my bad health does not allow me to accompany him and do my own research on their earliest arquebuses. I will try and renew our old contact and see what actually is possible. After all, Romania is in the EU now and gets a whole lot of money from Germany. They will not want to hear of that but I'm going to tell them the facts anyway. I remember paying 400 euro (about 500 USD) six years ago, and you have seen what 'quality' the stuff was I got. That was not the kind of jokes that make me laugh.

Just a few words on Holger Richter. He is by no means the crossbow enthusiast that Harmuth was indeed. And he did not see the Sibiu crosbows.

With my very best wishes,
Michael

Matchlock · 21st March 2014, 07:03 PM

Having just read the 1934 essay by Julius Bielz on the Hermannstadt crossbows, I would like to know whether there is someone interested in a translation. Although this would be some amount of work I would do it as there are a number of invaluable quotations from historic sources, including workshops etc., plus information on where and when these crossbows were made. He also gives a very detailed description and measurements of the best preserved sample.

I have also been informed that a large number of those originally 25 crossbows that Bielz mentions are no longer in Sibiu but have been in the National Museum Budapest, Hungary, for at least 20 years when they were sent there for a special historic exhibition. Why they were not returned I do not know. In his essay, Bielz mentions the fact that 8 Gothic crossbows from Hermannstadt were already in the Budapest museum by 1934.

m

Micke D · 21st March 2014, 08:37 PM

If you have the time and eye for it, please do it!!!

Micke D · 22nd March 2014, 01:06 PM

Quote:

I have also been informed that a large number of those originally 25 crossbows that Bielz mentions are no longer in Sibiu but have been in the National Museum Budapest, Hungary, for at least 20 years when they were sent there for a special historic exhibition. Why they were not returned I do not know. In his essay, Bielz mentions the fact that 8 Gothic crossbows from Hermannstadt were already in the Budapest museum by 1934.

Very interesting information Michael!

Richter mentions that, “Acht gleichartige Waffen besitzt das Ungarische Nationalmuseum in Budapest”, but I thought that that was eight DIFFERENT weapons. That’s how it goes when you can’t read the Bielz text correctly.

Hungary is maybe a bit easier to visit, I know a guy that know a guy that’s supposed to work at either the Military Museum or National Museum.

20th March 2014, 12:37 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	No post Last edited by Matchlock; 20th March 2014 at 01:35 PM.

21st March 2014, 05:20 PM	#2
Micke D Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 41	Hello Michael! First you got my hope up for visiting this collection someday , but now my hope is almost gone again . It's so sad with that kind of trouble to get some simple photos taken, and that you had to pay for them, and in bad quality at that. But that seems to be the way of many museums around the world; the objects are theirs and theirs alone. So studying the crossbows seems to be hard to arrange. I found out about these crossbows in Egon Harmuths book , ‘Die Armbrust. He writes somewhere in the book,( I can’t find the page right now), about 24 war crossbows kept at the same place since medieval times. That started my interest and my want to see them some day. Later I found out that Holger Richter has a chapter about these crossbows, 25 he says, in his book, ‘Die Hornbogenarmbrust’. Many of the bows covered with hunting designs and the coat of arms of Matthias Corvinus, the king of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia, who died in Vienna in 1490. I have also found an article by Dr Julius Bielz from 1934, but sadly the copy is more or less as bad as your photo. Attached Images

21st March 2014, 05:37 PM	#3
Micke D Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 41	These two photos are of the crossbows on display at the Brukenthal Museum. They were taken by a Romanian guy who is into 15th c re-enactment and was shown at The Armour Archive a few years ago. Attached Images

21st March 2014, 07:03 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Having just read the 1934 essay by Julius Bielz on the Hermannstadt crossbows, I would like to know whether there is someone interested in a translation. Although this would be some amount of work I would do it as there are a number of invaluable quotations from historic sources, including workshops etc., plus information on where and when these crossbows were made. He also gives a very detailed description and measurements of the best preserved sample. I have also been informed that a large number of those originally 25 crossbows that Bielz mentions are no longer in Sibiu but have been in the National Museum Budapest, Hungary, for at least 20 years when they were sent there for a special historic exhibition. Why they were not returned I do not know. In his essay, Bielz mentions the fact that 8 Gothic crossbows from Hermannstadt were already in the Budapest museum by 1934. m Last edited by Matchlock; 21st March 2014 at 07:44 PM.

21st March 2014, 08:37 PM	#6
Micke D Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 41	If you have the time and eye for it, please do it!!!