Left hand dagger for comments

[Jim McDougall]

Actually Nando that book is huge, and consumes a huge part of the living space here in the bookmobile, so its hard to forget about
Good point (no pun intended) on this ring being pretty unlikely to catch the opponents sword, and it would take the collaboration and cooperation of both parties to accomplish this.....way unlikely!

Nando, you must let this 'aiming' fixation go! I say as your counselor, it is not healthy and only imaginary, just say to yourself, its not real!!

Now I admit my fixation remains that these curious elements in these rings are like many such nuanced features on remarkably similar items produced by makers as sort of marks of individuality. I recall years ago visiting the blacksmith shop in Arkansas where the first Bowie knives were made. I was told that James Black, who is generally held to be the first maker of these famed knives, always 'notched' his blades. There was naturally no actual purpose for this feature, despite many attempts to prove otherwise, but it was distinctly a touch added to declare his authorship according to these versions.
I cannot help believing that in an atmosphere of intrigues and secrecy present with the stilettoes, the Council of Ten, dueling itself and other factors in these times in Italy, that there might be nuanced meaning to such features as well. Naturally, such things by their very nature of secrecy, are lost with those who knew them, so can likely never be proven, but remain fascinating plausibilities.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Actually Nando that book is huge, and consumes a huge part of the living space here in the bookmobile, so its hard to forget about ...

Ah, my copy is rather smaller, as it is a special edition made for some kind of presentation and the part with the makers marks is missing ... much to my regret . And i don't leave in a bookmobile; space would be enough for the complete copy here in the apartment

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Good point (no pun intended) on this ring being pretty unlikely to catch the opponents sword, and it would take the collaboration and cooperation of both parties to accomplish this.....way unlikely!...

Unless you were duelling in a circus .

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Nando, you must let this 'aiming' fixation go! I say as your counselor, it is not healthy and only imaginary, just say to yourself, its not real!! ...

Alright, fixation gone; no medicines needed .

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Now I admit my fixation remains that these curious elements in these rings are like many such nuanced features on remarkably similar items produced by makers as sort of marks of individuality. I recall years ago visiting the blacksmith shop in Arkansas where the first Bowie knives were made. I was told that James Black, who is generally held to be the first maker of these famed knives, always 'notched' his blades. There was naturally no actual purpose for this feature, despite many attempts to prove otherwise, but it was distinctly a touch added to declare his authorship according to these versions.
I cannot help believing that in an atmosphere of intrigues and secrecy present with the stilettoes, the Council of Ten, dueling itself and other factors in these times in Italy, that there might be nuanced meaning to such features as well. Naturally, such things by their very nature of secrecy, are lost with those who knew them, so can likely never be proven, but remain fascinating plausibilities...

A sustainable thesis, yes sir .

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[katana]

Hi 'Nando,
nice piece ......could the grooves in the ring guard be / or part of a primitive guide/fixing to attach to a musket. Would make a good bayonet. Musketeers of the late 17th early 18th C would be equipped with musket, rapier and main gauche. In battle it would be handy to have a bayonet (of sorts) without having to carry extra equipment

The grooves orientate the blade at the same aspect ....horizontal ...ideal for puncturing ribcages

All the best
David

[fernando]

Thank you David,
Imagination is something you are not short of .
Pehaps the musket coupling bayonet appeared a bit later ?
... and in a different manner

[fernando]

So it seems as some of us are not familiar with this sort of daggers; even think they are bayonets ... not referring to David.
Athough there are plenty clips in the Internet figuring fencers using sword & left hand dagger, i have chosen a couple pictures to upload here, due to their genuine romantic approach.
We can see this is rather an old style of duelling.
The first woodcut, for one, is dated 1570; belongs in the collection of Rainer Daehnhardt. The other one is rather suggestive too.
If you watch some contemporary clips you will notice that the position of the fencers is prety much the same.

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