European Piha Kaetta

[David]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It is important to recognize here as has been well pointed out, these examples of pita kaetta are clearly stamped and do not purport to in any way deceive or diminish the cultural properties of the weapons they are fashioned from. They are artistic impressions of the weapon seen more as a tribute to them, and certainly well placed examples of ethnographica in that respect.
The position attempting to compare them categorically to the originals and classify them as copies in the sense of deceptive reproductions is of course entirely specious, however the discussion that has developed has brought fascinating perspective to these kinds of arms.

Whether or not pamor patterns are "technologically" useful or culturally useful seems immaterial to the discussion for me, though i do appreciate that Ariel made that distinction. The point is that they do serve an important cultural and spiritual purpose in the keris world as does the choice of certain wood and wood patterning in the dress. Dismissing legitimacy of the keris because its main function is no longer that of a weapon minimizes its importance as perhaps the single most powerful symbol of an entire culture, a symbolic icon which is still active and functioning in Indonesia to this day. Even though it is not used as a weapon anymore it is far more than merely an item of required dress at certain high functions or an objet d'art.
I don't think anyone here is denying that the French Pihas are indeed collectible items. Of course they are as are miniature arms. Neither has anyone suggested that they have been or could be passed off as the real thing. No one is claiming any deception here. They may or may not attract the edged weapons collector, depending upon their personal tastes in collecting, but they might well be the prize of somebody's collection somewhere. The F. BARBEDIENNE name is no doubt a big one in the world of French antiques and one of these would certainly attract a lot of attention on the Antiques Road Show. What they are not are ethnographic arms, no matter how you cut it. They are sculptures. Their intention is as a representation of an ethnographic knife, but to my eyes they are not even really knives per se, they are an artistic representation of a knife. Also to my eye they are FAR less exquisite than good examples of the real thing. My original response to this thread was brought on by all the "wows", "oohs" and "aahs" that these copies seem to have evoked from members. I am still baffled. The funny thing is that i am willing to bet that these sculptural reproductions would probably command a much higher price in the general world of antiques that the much more exquisitely crafted real example that i posted earlier based solely upon the F. BARBEDIENNE signature. Go figure…
Hopefully some of you will understand what i mean when i say "Ceci nest pas un Piha Kaetta".

[Jim McDougall]

Nice riposte David! and again thank you for elaborating in expressing your opinions. Surprisingly it does not seem that we are that far apart in our perceptions regarding this item as you have noted that no deception is intended in these artistic interpretations of the piha kaetta by French artisans. You also reflect accord in noting that even these artistic pieces certainly do have merit to some in the collecting fraternity much as shown in the miniature weapons instance.
It seems you agree that it is indeed a matter of personal preference, though you are baffled by the responses of a number of our members to items you clearly do not favor and quite disdain.

When this thread was brought up by Antique Arms who thoughtfully shared additional data concerning this interesting item, I was personally most pleased, not necessarily toward the topic but to see participation and follow up by a new member. In reading the material I found it most intriguing and it frankly piqued my interest in a subject I had not previously followed.

While I must admit to never having any particular interest in the keris, I have never been 'baffled' by the interest of others in them. In point of fact, I admire those who have pursued the study of them and maintain the proper respect and understanding of them. Again, in my perception, it is to each his own, and I strongly support the efforts and participation of everyone in their own fields of collecting and studies. These pages are for sharing data and interests

By the same token I applaud your defense of the cultural importance of the keris and the piha kaettta, however I don't believe that aspect of these cultural icons have been compromised in any of the observations or comments here. The comments on the pamor of the keris and their collectability for the woods etc. were in my opinion carefully qualified as toward 'technological' properties in regard to comparison of ethnographic items as 'weapons', so apparently the legitimacy of the keris was not being questioned, but the analogy was clearly a fragile one.

Returning to the origin of this discussion, I would like to thank Antique Arms once again for your excellent participation in posting this data, and join the others in observing the fine craftsmanship of this French tribute to that of the Ceylonese artisans and culture.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Returning to the origin of this discussion, I would like to ... join the others in observing the fine craftsmanship of this French tribute to that of the Ceylonese artisans and culture.

Amen!