Shashka for comments

[ArmsAndAntiques]

The more I look at it, the more the fuller design appears Central Asian and in particular Afghan. I've had numerous pulwars with this type of crudely done fuller work. However, I'd agree that the overall shape is more Caucasian than anything else.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ArmsAndAntiques

The more I look at it, the more the fuller design appears Central Asian and in particular Afghan. I've had numerous pulwars with this type of crudely done fuller work. However, I'd agree that the overall shape is more Caucasian than anything else.

Most interesting observation A&A and sounds like you've had some good exposure to weaponry from these regions. May I ask more about the paluoars you're referring to, any chance of images or examples of this type fuller pattern on them. I've long been curious about just where in Afghanistan these paluoars were produced. My impression has always been they were more Deccani influenced tulwars from Northwest frontier regions.

[ArmsAndAntiques]

Hi Jim,

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of those as I had them several years ago before I began to systematically keep photos of my pieces. However, just a few weeks ago I had dinner with a friend of mine, an Afghan war vet, who picked up some pieces there and if I remember right at least two of the pieces he showed me had similar fullering.

While I can't produce the photos of those Afghan pieces, I would feel that it would be interesting for someone to show a photo of a definite Caucasian origin piece with a similar blade. I also would say that the fuller work trending towards Central Asian, is also supported by Chinese swords with similar fullering as well, something picked up from Persian-Central Asian aesthetics, as Philip Tom has written about quite eloquently.

Best
LL

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ArmsAndAntiques

Hi Jim,

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of those as I had them several years ago before I began to systematically keep photos of my pieces. However, just a few weeks ago I had dinner with a friend of mine, an Afghan war vet, who picked up some pieces there and if I remember right at least two of the pieces he showed me had similar fullering.

While I can't produce the photos of those Afghan pieces, I would feel that it would be interesting for someone to show a photo of a definite Caucasian origin piece with a similar blade. I also would say that the fuller work trending towards Central Asian, is also supported by Chinese swords with similar fullering as well, something picked up from Persian-Central Asian aesthetics, as Philip Tom has written about quite eloquently.

Best
LL

It would indeed be helpful to have photos of the fullering arrangements from both the paluoars mentioned and of Caucasian examples, but I admit the Chinese aspect is extremely intriguing. Could you say more on which of Philip's works reference these kinds of blades in Chinese swords?

I have come up with something which might lend toward the plausibly Afghan provenance for the blade you have suggested. In considering the rather crude fuller detail I must admit that that would be far out of character of Chechen blades.

That curious device which seems to resemble some kind of bird or other highly stylized image, while reminding me of certain designs from the Caucusus has also brought to mind another region using these kinds of animist pictograph devices. This is the area of Afghanistan now called Nuristan in which the Kafirs occupied. This area was once termed Kafiristan and the native tribes practiced a polytheistic animist religion until they were subjugated by Emir Abdur Rahman Khan of Afghanistan in 1896. While they became Muslim, they still carried forth elements of their folk religion and perhaps that may explain the Islamic cartouche coupled with this apparently animist device on the blade.

I have noticed that as you suggest the curvature of some Afghan sabres of shashka form is much the same, and possibly we might find confluence in classification with this Nuristani possibility. I think this could answer in part the provenance of the blade, but the present mounts I believe may still be from Tiblisi (Tiflis)regions and Transcaucasian artisans there.

[TVV]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for keeping the discussion alive. Here are some additional pictures of the blade, showing two decorative panels on both sides, some more detail of the fullering and also the tang.

Regards,
Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for the additional photos Teodor, and these remarkably clarify exactly what Antique Arms was saying. If you look at the backstrap of the hilt right at the blade you will see the fixture which is loosely termed the 'calyx'. This is one of the most profound indicators of Central Asian origin, and in this case specifically Afghanistan (look at this location on Khyber knives). I therefore withdraw my Chechen/Caucasian assessment with this new evidence which is of course compelling.
Further I have looked at examples of Afghan shashkas and the profile and curvature of the blade is extremely similar.

What is even more compelling, and remarkable are the views of the other motif on this blade, which even more convinces me that this is from the Nuristan regions of Afghanistan or from that particular tribal culture.
This area of Nuristan is comprised of the former Kafiristan (written of by Roberts in 1896, and famed for Kipling's rendition in "The Man Who Wuld be King"). The Kafirs were subjugated by Afghan Amir Adur Rahman Khan in 1896 and converted to Islam, while the somewhat associated Kalash people of Chitral in Pakistan retain their original animist folk religion and traditions.
The amalgamation of Islamic cartouche (which may be an imitation?) and the pictographic and geometric motif resembling Kafir work suggest of course possible cross diffusion .
I would consider this from regions indicated and probably from early years of the 20th century.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you so much for the additional photos Teodor, and these remarkably clarify exactly what Antique Arms was saying. If you look at the backstrap of the hilt right at the blade you will see the fixture which is loosely termed the 'calyx'. This is one of the most profound indicators of Central Asian origin, and in this case specifically Afghanistan (look at this location on Khyber knives). I therefore withdraw my Chechen/Caucasian assessment with this new evidence which is of course compelling.
Further I have looked at examples of Afghan shashkas and the profile and curvature of the blade is extremely similar.

What is even more compelling, and remarkable are the views of the other motif on this blade, which even more convinces me that this is from the Nuristan regions of Afghanistan or from that particular tribal culture.
This area of Nuristan is comprised of the former Kafiristan (written of by Roberts in 1896, and famed for Kipling's rendition in "The Man Who Wuld be King"). The Kafirs were subjugated by Afghan Amir Adur Rahman Khan in 1896 and converted to Islam, while the somewhat associated Kalash people of Chitral in Pakistan retain their original animist folk religion and traditions.
The amalgamation of Islamic cartouche (which may be an imitation?) and the pictographic and geometric motif resembling Kafir work suggest of course possible cross diffusion .
I would consider this from regions indicated and probably from early years of the 20th century.

Salaams Jim, I find this very interesting. The Kalash believe they are decended from Alexander the Great. Oddly they had no alphabet until about 12 years ago. I urge readers to see http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...125929206.html for a fascinating vignette into the Kalash situation.

I imagine the cartouche to be Hindi or closely related.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.