Noth African sword

[blue lander]

Some less blurry photos of the crosses, the moon, and the diagonal lines on the spine.

I also noticed the part of the spine with the diagonal lines is actually a bit thinner than the rest of the blade. I wonder if it was filed down as part of it's transformation into a s'boula.

Edit: on closer inspection the whole spine has file marks, they're just fainter on the rest of the spine

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by blue lander

Some less blurry photos of the crosses, the moon, and the diagonal lines on the spine.

I also noticed the part of the spine with the diagonal lines is actually a bit thinner than the rest of the blade. I wonder if it was filed down as part of it's transformation into a s'boula.

Edit: on closer inspection the whole spine has file marks, they're just fainter on the rest of the spine

Salaams Blue Lander, Thank you for the clearer pictures. As I have noted the crosses are representing the Southern Cross. They must have been done locally by Berber craftsmen. I have the same impression of the moon strikes... locally done (not at source in the case of European produced blades)..

The moon takes on a quite different meaning (though, broadly, it is talismanic in both the Eastern and Western sense) I suggest that on North African swords it represented the new moon and as the design crept across the Sahara region into the red sea it changed slightly to combine moon with and without facial features and moon with stars struck like asterisks or dots etc etc...So that though the basic marks were put by local smiths they used local designs...thus they morphed from one region to another...Where the funny face moon was copied from Caucasus and other European swords these can be seen to be quite rudimentary copies and it is assumed they just copied them willy-nilly as moon shapes..Squigles, spots and all !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all Note to Library ... Some quotes about Moroccan daggers from the famous ...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

* Stone 1934 p310
"In Morocco the blades are straight and single-edged for about half their length from the hilt, and then curved and double-edged for the remainder. They seldom have ribs. The hilts and scabbards are usually of brass or silver, often the front is of silver and the back of brass. The scabbards frequently curve so much that the ends point upwards. There are almost always large ornamental lugs on the sides that carry large rings to which a cord is fastened by which the knife is hung from the neck. The hilts are usually made entirely of metal and have large, flat pommels. The side of the hilt and scabbard that is outward when the knife is carried is always elaborately, though crudely, decorated. The opposite side is much simpler, in fact, in many cases it is entirely plain."

* Spring 1993 p24
"There are a number of Moroccan variations of the type of dagger collectively known as janbiyya which form an essential element of the formal attire of every adult man in Arabia and the Maghrib countries of North Africa. As with the nimsha, the blades of Moroccan daggers are frequently fitted with European blades, including examples made in Sheffield and Birmingham in England, and Solingen in Germany. The koummya, with its distinctive 'peacock's tail' pommel, is found in a number of variant forms in the Sous region and the Atlas mountains of Southern Morocco. Like the nimsha and the Tuareg takouba, the koummya, is worn on the left side by means of a baldric slung over the right shoulder. The Arabian janbiyya, by contrast, is normally worn in a belt on the front of a man's stomach."

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all... and about Moroccan Nimchas
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

* North 1985 p29-30
"The classic sword of the area is the 'Nimcha'. This has more than a hint of European influence especially in the form of the hilt, which is fitted with a knuckle bow linked to curved quillons. These hilts are found mounted with straight and curved blades[;] the straight blades were usually imported from Europe. This type of sword continued in use until the 19th century."

* Spring 1993 p24
"The nimsha includes elements from both Islamic and European swords in a synthesis which is nonetheless distinctively African. A diagnostic features of many Islamic swords is the cap pommel set at an angle at the top of the grip. In the nimsha this appears as an enlarged and ornate extension to protect the back of the hand. The grip, often of rhinoceros horn or ivory traded across the Sahara, sometimes included a hollowed-out section to accommodate the little finger. By contrast, the form of the four quillons, three curving downwards and the fourth bent back to form a knuckle guard, is suggestive of southern European models, particularly the fifteenth- and sixteenth-century Spanish swords whose influence may also be seen among those weapons produced in the region of the ancient kingdom of Kongo on the lower Zaire river. The nimsha began to appear from the late sixteenth century and was at first mounted with straight, European blades often of Venetian or Genoese provenance. A shorter, curved version, of entirely local manufacture, was developed during the seventeenth century for use as a naval cutlass."

* Stone 1934 p469
"NIMCHA. An Arab sabre with a knuckle guard rectangular at the base with drooping quillons on the opposite side. It is also used in Morocco."

[blue lander]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but I just saw this curved Shiavona with nearly identical star/moon markings as my blade.


http://sword-site.com/thread/731/curved-schiavona

The quality or detail of the marks on that blade don't seem any fancier or nicer than he ones on mine. I wonder if the marks on mine were done in Europe when it was forged rather than in Africa as most people assume.

[Rick]

The moons are quite different; the crosses seem a better match.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Great to see this one pop up again... The beauty of Forum Library...

Blue Lander your hilt is Rhino...see the bunched spaghetti endings? Get a powerful light onto the hilt and it should illuminate up nicely.

Is it one of the hilt forms or perhaps a Gurade hilt? I show to compare a Gurade Hilt ...

The question about the cross and moon ..is interesting... The Cross shown is the famous style both in North African and Spanish form already noted earlier but outlined here;

Quote" Cross of Saint James
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cross of Saint James as used by the Order of Santiago.

In heraldry, the Cross of Saint James, also called the Santiago cross or the cruz espada,[1] is a charge in the form of a cross. It combines a cross fitchy (the lower limb is pointed, as if to be driven into the ground) with either a cross fleury[2] (the arms end in fleurs-de-lys) or a cross moline[1] (the ends of the arms are forked and rounded).

Most notably, a red Cross of Saint James with flourished arms, surmounted with an escallop,[2] was the emblem of the twelfth-century Spanish military Order of Santiago, named after Saint James the Greater. It is also used as a decorative element on the Tarta de Santiago, a traditional Galician sweet."UNQUOTE.

See the thread by Fenris at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985 where an almopst identical blade is shown ...and below ... but on a Moroccan/Algerian Nimcha.