19th Century German hunting Sword

[neekee]

ahaha, sorry M ELEY, it's a family gift ^^

Thanks for the additional info though. So, so far, we've got:

. marking suggests a Dutch blade.
. classified as "hanger" (this word doesn't exist in French apparently), so not necessarily used for hunting
. early to late 18th century, which is awesome news to me ^^

I sure wish my great uncle was still around so I could ask him where it came from. This makes me really curious to know if it actually came down the family line or he purchased it himself.

Thanks a lot again to all of you

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by neekee

ahaha, sorry M ELEY, it's a family gift ^^

Thanks for the additional info though. So, so far, we've got:

. marking suggests a Dutch blade.
. classified as "hanger" (this word doesn't exist in French apparently), so not necessarily used for hunting
. early to late 18th century, which is awesome news to me ^^

I sure wish my great uncle was still around so I could ask him where it came from. This makes me really curious to know if it actually came down the family line or he purchased it himself.

Thanks a lot again to all of you

Salaams neekee ~ Welcome to the Forum. Please show the other mark half way down the blade which could imply a Far Eastern inscription, Hindu or Arabic? Unlike Jim I haven't spent too long researching this style thus it was good to see his detailed report superbly placing your sword.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[neekee]

Hi Ibrahiim !

Sorry but like I said there aren't any noticeable markings on the blade. I'll try to take better pictures for you in plain daylight tomorrow.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams neekee ~ Welcome to the Forum. Please show the other mark half way down the blade which could imply a Far Eastern inscription, Hindu or Arabic? Unlike Jim I haven't spent too long researching this style thus it was good to see his detailed report superbly placing your sword.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Thank you so much Ibrahiim for the kind nod Indeed my efforts going through these maddening heaps of notes was to try to respond to the query on identification and the marking in particular. Actually I was hoping there would be more attention to the marking and for possibly further input to discuss it.
Like you, I thought I could see some form of marking or anomalous configuration at mid point of blade where engraved devices, cyphers or other decoration often occur on these blades.

The term hanger is loosely used for short bladed swords whether military or civilian, having developed it seems around the late 17th early 18th c. from I believe an Ottoman word. In France the term used for these short blade swords for hunting was couteau du chasse (I am no linguist especially with French!) but if I understand correctly the etymology of the word cutlass derived from couteau. Naturally I would appreciate any better informed explanation of these terms....we're here learn

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... In France the term used for these short blade swords for hunting was couteau du chasse (I am no linguist especially with French!) but if I understand correctly the etymology of the word cutlass derived from couteau. Naturally I would appreciate any better informed explanation of these terms....we're here learn

Coteau de chasse translates to hunting knife (not sword). Coteau is the most basic term for knife you can imagine ... notwithstanding being the root for other derivations.

My response:

Thanks Nando! Like with most etymology in varying languages, it seems that terms used somewhat indiscriminately for knife/sword seem more focused on its use (cutting) than on its form. Most references I have seen on hunting swords use the couteau du chasse (Nuemann for example) while others often favor the German 'hirschfanger' for hunting swords. The term hanger seems to become even broader referring to military use of these shorter swords as officers often carried their own personal hunting/court type weapons. As swords of this shorter nature often carried by other ranks were comparable in size I suppose the term became associated further ?

[neekee]

Couteau, from Old French coutel, from Latin cultellus a little knife.

Couteau really means "knife" in French, not sword or saber. Sword could be "épée", saber would be "sabre". Although it's always hard to know what the old use for these words used to be.

I couldn't find an equivalent to the English term "hanger". The wikipedia page links to the French "sabre d'abordage" page, which would be a boarding sword.

The collector who identified this sword as a "19th century german hunting sword" called it "dague" (dagger) and "couteau" -de chasse in the same email ...

I didn't have time to take a picture of the blade today, but I can assure you again there are sadly no other markings.

Thanks to all for your interest !

[Jim McDougall]

Fernando and Neekee thanks so much for the interesting data on the etymology. In the study of arms there has always been such confusion and misnomer and in learning about them sometimes the terms by which they are called are often as the history of the arms themselves. It does sometimes present problems though in researching development of certain forms from contemporary narratives etc. as all you have is a verbal description without visual assistance, and a misplaced term sends you down an entirely different path.

[neekee]

Maybe it would be good to update the thread title with the info provided ? I don't have the required authorizations, it seems.