Gold Keris - Malay with Bugis Influence?

Battara · 20th November 2013, 02:19 PM

Plus gilding is a thicker application of gold than plating.

David · 20th November 2013, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Plus gilding is a thicker application of gold than plating.

I guess i'm a little confused. If gilding is thicker why would it be more likely that the base metal would show through as Alan suggests?

A. G. Maisey · 20th November 2013, 08:55 PM

Its as I said Jean:- there are various types of gilding. Battara obviously means the type of gilding that is applied to wood, where gold leaf is used, or fire gilding to metal which can also leave a heavy deposit. Have a look at the little gold birds on that pendok I posted a pic of to another current thread:- those birds are fire gilding.

The type of gilding that we find on old pendoks is usually pretty thin. Even when it is electro plate on an old pendok, it will be thin and soft and very subject to wear. They cannot do hard gold plating, or hard silver plating in Jawa, as far as I am aware. The gold plate on your bathroom taps is very hard and does not wear much at all. Then again, sometimes gold and silver plate will be sprayed with a protective lacquer.

There are a lot of processes that we call "gilding" in English, that in Jawa have other names, usually "sepuh mas" for gold to metal and "prada" for gold to wood. There are other names used also in Jawa, but I forget them, because you might only hear that word once in five years.

There is a lot of variation in plating, its not all equal.

Battara · 22nd November 2013, 12:20 AM

Alan is correct.

What I have found is that most gilding is thicker (especially done in the old ways) than plating (which is microns thick). Basically it takes more gold to cover an area, but as Alan said, an occupational hazard is that there can be uneven in application. Plating, though thinner and more easily worn off, is equal in application all over.

A. G. Maisey · 22nd November 2013, 12:26 AM

Another occupational hazard is death.

Fire gilding is done with mercury:- inhale the fumes, you die.

Battara · 22nd November 2013, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Another occupational hazard is death.

Fire gilding is done with mercury:- inhale the fumes, you die.

Very true, very true.

Thus the "Mad Hatter's" disease and therefore why it isn't done much anymore.

Sajen · 23rd November 2013, 03:50 PM

Hello Jose,

my best guess that it is a Sumatra (Riau?) Bugis keris. I also think that the handle show Sumatra influence (Minang, Riau?). Sheath form isn't pure Sulawesi form. Pendok is maybe a more recent addition. Gilded "pendoks" could be simple a sign of wealth but it could be that it was added by a selling purpose.
Still a nice keris.

Regards,

Detlef

20th November 2013, 02:19 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Plus gilding is a thicker application of gold than plating.

20th November 2013, 08:55 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Its as I said Jean:- there are various types of gilding. Battara obviously means the type of gilding that is applied to wood, where gold leaf is used, or fire gilding to metal which can also leave a heavy deposit. Have a look at the little gold birds on that pendok I posted a pic of to another current thread:- those birds are fire gilding. The type of gilding that we find on old pendoks is usually pretty thin. Even when it is electro plate on an old pendok, it will be thin and soft and very subject to wear. They cannot do hard gold plating, or hard silver plating in Jawa, as far as I am aware. The gold plate on your bathroom taps is very hard and does not wear much at all. Then again, sometimes gold and silver plate will be sprayed with a protective lacquer. There are a lot of processes that we call "gilding" in English, that in Jawa have other names, usually "sepuh mas" for gold to metal and "prada" for gold to wood. There are other names used also in Jawa, but I forget them, because you might only hear that word once in five years. There is a lot of variation in plating, its not all equal.

22nd November 2013, 12:20 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Alan is correct. What I have found is that most gilding is thicker (especially done in the old ways) than plating (which is microns thick). Basically it takes more gold to cover an area, but as Alan said, an occupational hazard is that there can be uneven in application. Plating, though thinner and more easily worn off, is equal in application all over.

22nd November 2013, 12:26 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Another occupational hazard is death. Fire gilding is done with mercury:- inhale the fumes, you die.

23rd November 2013, 03:50 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Hello Jose, my best guess that it is a Sumatra (Riau?) Bugis keris. I also think that the handle show Sumatra influence (Minang, Riau?). Sheath form isn't pure Sulawesi form. Pendok is maybe a more recent addition. Gilded "pendoks" could be simple a sign of wealth but it could be that it was added by a selling purpose. Still a nice keris. Regards, Detlef