Gold Keris - Malay with Bugis Influence?

Ganja Iras · 13th November 2013, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Greetings folks.

Rarely do I have much to contribute or ask on this side of the forum, but today I do.

I need your help on identification of this piece - from where, age, purpose, and anything else you see and can help.

The dress is gold, the wood has flashing grains, and the selut is brass. I figure that the blade is older than the rest.

Thank you.

Hi there ,
Here i include this picture as a comparison to your keris.
and i agree with David that the blade looks a bugis sulawesi.
also my blade is buginesse and it was found in sumbawa ,the warangka ,hilt & buntut are ivory.
The pendhok ( metal on the sarung ) is solid gold ; 20 K.
Thanks,

Ganja iras

Battara · 14th November 2013, 03:20 AM

Ok just tested the metal - it's gold plated brass.

This is the last piece of information I can think of.

So we know it is Sulawesi Bugis. Since this is gold plated, I guess this is recent (except the blade) and that this is not for nobility. Would this be then a pusaka piece?

Jean · 16th November 2013, 09:26 AM

Hello,
From the pictures the blade seems old but of common quality (indistinct pamor) and the nice pendok has a contemporary design. The hilt looks old and not Minang IMO but it has a specific design (mix Jawa Deman/ pengulu) probably from East Sumatra but other opinions are welcome.
Best regards

Battara · 19th November 2013, 11:45 PM

Ok.....so.........how common are these gilt dressed keris?

If it is in gilt dress, does this mean it is a pusaka piece?

A. G. Maisey · 20th November 2013, 12:26 AM

Is it gilt, or is it gold plate? There is a difference.

My guess is that this is gold plate.

Both are pretty common and at least in Jawa relate more to the owner's wishes than to any regal or vice regal association. I do not know about what might apply in other places.

Battara · 20th November 2013, 03:45 AM

Alan, I mean both and thank you.

Jean · 20th November 2013, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Is it gilt, or is it gold plate? There is a difference.

My guess is that this is gold plate.

Both are pretty common and at least in Jawa relate more to the owner's wishes than to any regal or vice regal association. I do not know about what might apply in other places.

Alan,
Could you please explain to us the difference between gilt and gold-plated as used in Java? I think I basically know but not in detail.
Best regards

A. G. Maisey · 20th November 2013, 12:02 PM

Not as used in Jawa Jean, but rather as we distinguish between the two..

In Jawa they will refer to both as "sepuhan", either would be "sepuh mas". However for us, ie, we bules, we distinguish between something that has been plated with electricity, either heavy technologically superior plating, or market place plating done in little troughs with a car battery, and the various types of true gilding. But then in English we use the same word, "gilt", or "gild" for applying a thin coat or covering of gold to either wood or metal. We have fire gilding, where the gold is dissolved in mercury and the mercury burnt off --- you can still get this done in Solo ---then we have the type of gilding where thin gold leaf is glued to wood, in Jawa this is called "prada" (pron. "prodo").

In the case of this pendok, I raised the question because if it had been gilded rather than plated it would look a lot duller than it does, and very probably metal would have been showing through the gold. This is not the case with this pendok, so I'm almost certain it has plated rather than gilded.

14th November 2013, 03:20 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Ok just tested the metal - it's gold plated brass. This is the last piece of information I can think of. So we know it is Sulawesi Bugis. Since this is gold plated, I guess this is recent (except the blade) and that this is not for nobility. Would this be then a pusaka piece? Last edited by Battara; 14th November 2013 at 04:00 AM.

16th November 2013, 09:26 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello, From the pictures the blade seems old but of common quality (indistinct pamor) and the nice pendok has a contemporary design. The hilt looks old and not Minang IMO but it has a specific design (mix Jawa Deman/ pengulu) probably from East Sumatra but other opinions are welcome. Best regards

19th November 2013, 11:45 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Ok.....so.........how common are these gilt dressed keris? If it is in gilt dress, does this mean it is a pusaka piece?

20th November 2013, 12:26 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Is it gilt, or is it gold plate? There is a difference. My guess is that this is gold plate. Both are pretty common and at least in Jawa relate more to the owner's wishes than to any regal or vice regal association. I do not know about what might apply in other places.

20th November 2013, 03:45 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Alan, I mean both and thank you.

20th November 2013, 12:02 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Not as used in Jawa Jean, but rather as we distinguish between the two.. In Jawa they will refer to both as "sepuhan", either would be "sepuh mas". However for us, ie, we bules, we distinguish between something that has been plated with electricity, either heavy technologically superior plating, or market place plating done in little troughs with a car battery, and the various types of true gilding. But then in English we use the same word, "gilt", or "gild" for applying a thin coat or covering of gold to either wood or metal. We have fire gilding, where the gold is dissolved in mercury and the mercury burnt off --- you can still get this done in Solo ---then we have the type of gilding where thin gold leaf is glued to wood, in Jawa this is called "prada" (pron. "prodo"). In the case of this pendok, I raised the question because if it had been gilded rather than plated it would look a lot duller than it does, and very probably metal would have been showing through the gold. This is not the case with this pendok, so I'm almost certain it has plated rather than gilded.