New Maguindanao Kris Form

Battara · 3rd November 2013, 08:23 PM

Thanks Spunger, now I understand to what you are referring.

Also like you I finally understand the decor on Datu Piang's kris.

On the sarimanok, I finally see how you are seeing it last night.

Maurice, although they are 2 different sets of cultures, they are cousins and may share similar symbolic traits.

CCUAL · 3rd November 2013, 11:36 PM

Not as ornate as yours but here's another style.

Spunjer · 4th November 2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Thanks Spunger, now I understand to what you are referring.

Also like you I finally understand the decor on Datu Piang's kris.

On the sarimanok, I finally see how you are seeing it last night.

no, thank YOU, for posting this wonderful kris jose. it really help us solved the mystery of Datu Piang's kris. it's just too cool that you got the twin piece. can't wait to see this in real life, bro! not to mention how this particular piece really strengthened the sarimanok connection

ThePepperSkull · 4th November 2013, 11:05 PM

What can I say other than I am speechless? What a great find, and I'm so glad it went to someone who posts here, as I wouldn't have learned about the abbreviated/blunt sarimanok pommel being a consistently executed form.

I have one with a similar form pommel (albeit wood) as well, and once i find pictures I'll post them on the thread to contribute.

Again, great find, Jose. I wish I'd bid more on it when it was up, but I'm glad it went to you.

EDIT: What would the chances be that this actually is Datu Piang's Kris? I'm thinking that since he died prior to WWII, he could have passed it on to a relative who may have had to replace the scabbard at some point. Are there any other shots of Piang and his Kris we can use for reference to see just how similar the hilts are?

Spunjer · 5th November 2013, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

EDIT: What would the chances be that this actually is Datu Piang's Kris? I'm thinking that since he died prior to WWII, he could have passed it on to a relative who may have had to replace the scabbard at some point. Are there any other shots of Piang and his Kris we can use for reference to see just how similar the hilts are?

you know, i've been comparing jose's kris and Piang's kris, and the only difference i could find is that final ring closest to the pommel. on piang's picture, i noticed that the rings are spaced evenly, with the final ring placed just below the reversed number 7 looking ukkil. also, it seems like there's a cloth of some sort between the top ring and the ring immediately below it. meanwhile, Jose's kris has the top ring seated next to second ring...
other than that, the ukkils are eerily similar. heck, everything else is similar. i mean, for those that collects moro krises, has anyone ever seen two krises that are THIS similar???

which begs another question: does the ring closest to the pommel somewhat loose, or by any chance, moveable???

Battara · 5th November 2013, 01:08 AM

Well the ring/band below the pommel is held there by twisted silver wire at the front. It is not actually a ring. I agree that there are some small differences in the 2, but again minor.

I too wonder if this could have been owned by Piang.......

Here are 2 other pictures of another metal pommel kris worn by Datu Piang - one is a close up of the other:

CharlesS · 5th November 2013, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

you know, i've been comparing jose's kris and Piang's kris, and the only difference i could find is that final ring closest to the pommel. on piang's picture, i noticed that the rings are spaced evenly, with the final ring placed just below the reversed number 7 looking ukkil. also, it seems like there's a cloth of some sort between the top ring and the ring immediately below it. meanwhile, Jose's kris has the top ring seated next to second ring...
other than that, the ukkils are eerily similar. heck, everything else is similar. i mean, for those that collects moro krises, has anyone ever seen two krises that are THIS similar???

which begs another question: does the ring closest to the pommel somewhat loose, or by any chance, moveable???

The biggest difference I see is that Jose's has one baca-baca and Piang's has two. Otherwise they are virtually identical.

CCUAL · 5th November 2013, 01:48 AM

Well, besides the rings difference there is also a difference on the upper ukil of both krises. The spine of the asang-asang's stirrup is very visible and it look like it was connected to the top ring of the handle. Maybe, after Piang's death, who ever inherited his sword, managed to dismantle the handle and removed the frit side clamp and stirrup?

preferred a single instead of two?

Robert · 5th November 2013, 02:30 AM

I do not know if this will help, but here is a side by side of the three hilt photos.

Robert

Battara · 5th November 2013, 04:04 AM

CCual thanks for finding a sharper and more complete picture than mine. Robert thank you for the comparison pictures.

Also notice that the kris in Datu Piang's hand has metal straps going up 2 opposite sides of the hilt where as mine doesn't have any.

3rd November 2013, 11:36 PM	#2
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	Not as ornate as yours but here's another style. Attached Images

4th November 2013, 11:05 PM	#4
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	What can I say other than I am speechless? What a great find, and I'm so glad it went to someone who posts here, as I wouldn't have learned about the abbreviated/blunt sarimanok pommel being a consistently executed form. I have one with a similar form pommel (albeit wood) as well, and once i find pictures I'll post them on the thread to contribute. Again, great find, Jose. I wish I'd bid more on it when it was up, but I'm glad it went to you. EDIT: What would the chances be that this actually is Datu Piang's Kris? I'm thinking that since he died prior to WWII, he could have passed it on to a relative who may have had to replace the scabbard at some point. Are there any other shots of Piang and his Kris we can use for reference to see just how similar the hilts are? Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 4th November 2013 at 11:50 PM.

5th November 2013, 01:08 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,363	Well the ring/band below the pommel is held there by twisted silver wire at the front. It is not actually a ring. I agree that there are some small differences in the 2, but again minor. I too wonder if this could have been owned by Piang....... Here are 2 other pictures of another metal pommel kris worn by Datu Piang - one is a close up of the other: Attached Images

5th November 2013, 02:30 AM	#9
Robert (deceased) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I do not know if this will help, but here is a side by side of the three hilt photos. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert; 5th November 2013 at 02:54 AM.

3rd November 2013, 08:23 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,363	Thanks Spunger, now I understand to what you are referring. Also like you I finally understand the decor on Datu Piang's kris. On the sarimanok, I finally see how you are seeing it last night. Maurice, although they are 2 different sets of cultures, they are cousins and may share similar symbolic traits.

5th November 2013, 01:48 AM	#8
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	Well, besides the rings difference there is also a difference on the upper ukil of both krises. The spine of the asang-asang's stirrup is very visible and it look like it was connected to the top ring of the handle. Maybe, after Piang's death, who ever inherited his sword, managed to dismantle the handle and removed the frit side clamp and stirrup? preferred a single instead of two?

5th November 2013, 04:04 AM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,363	CCual thanks for finding a sharper and more complete picture than mine. Robert thank you for the comparison pictures. Also notice that the kris in Datu Piang's hand has metal straps going up 2 opposite sides of the hilt where as mine doesn't have any.