Persian mail and plate shirt.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Did you laugh because it is not Persian or because it is Ottoman

Alex, look at the shoulders...someone at the museum put a pair of dizcek (cuisse or knee and thigh armor) on the shoulders. There is no way that any museum personal should make a mistake like that. Dizcek have a large round plate that covers the knee and mail and plate that covers the thigh. You can search the internet and not find another example like this so were did the museum come up with this idea. Here is an image showing how they should be worn. As far being Persian or Ottoman that would be a much more understandable mistake to make.

[ALEX]

WOW! This is really good one, Estcrh. Incredible indeed. I've seen a fair share of mistakes in many museums, but never a mega blunder like this Thanks for sharing!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams estcrh ALEX and all... I have to say I didn't spot that either, moreover, I was looking for something funny ... Now that you point it out it is quite amazing how someone has put this all together wrongly (unless the wearer fell from his horse and that's where his knees ended up!!) I suppose it is funny...ha! Did you mention it to the Museum?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams estcrh ALEX and all... I have to say I didn't spot that either, moreover, I was looking for something funny ... Now that you point it out it is quite amazing how someone has put this all together wrongly (unless the wearer fell from his horse and that's where his knees ended up!!) I suppose it is funny...ha! Did you mention it to the Museum?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim and all, I have found that museums in general do not want to be told that they are wrong, here is another example. Recently I spotted this image being posted all over the internet. It is a samurai full face mask (somen), there is no doubt about that, anyone can google "samurai somen" and come up with matching images. There are several different versions of this somen but all have the same basic description.

Iron Executioners Mask, European 1501-1700 Wellcome Library, London

So I did a little detective work and found the photographer responsible for taking one of the images, he was actually very cordial, he stated that he simply copied the museums description of the image and he felt that seeing the respectable nature of the museum (The Wellcome Collection) that owns the somen that they must be right in the accuracy of the description, but he did say that if the museum changed their description that he would do the same on his images.

So I did a little more digging and found links to the images with the wrong description. (http://wellcomeimages.org/indexplus/image/M0005113.html) and (http://wellcomeimages.org/indexplus/image/M0005114.html). So I thought that this would be an easy one, I contacted the museum many months ago and sent them all of the information they would need to see that the item being described as a "European executioners mask" was in fact a samurai somen. Well the mask is still mislabeled and the museum never replied to me.

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ibrahiim and all, I have found that museums in general do not want to be told that they are wrong, here is another example.

If you had put a PhD behind your name, they would have.
I've contacted the British National Maritime Museum in the past about a late 19th-early 20th c. child's toy sword [what the Germans would call a kinder degen] that they hath mislabeled as a US Navy officer's dirk. The curator emailed me and thanked for correcting their description...but they never changed it on their website.
There are other incorrectly described items on their website, but I never bothered to write to them again.

[Runjeet Singh]

On the other-hand, I recently informed The Herbert museum (Coventry, UK) that they were about exhibit a fake (eBay) Sikh 'Turban' helmet as part of a Sikh Exhibition, and they took my opinion without question.

Unfortunately it had already been on display at Birmingham (UK) Museum for many months, described as a 19thC original, without question by museum staff, and so-called experts invited to the exhibition.

Regards,
Runjeet

[Iain]

I've had it go both ways as well. Smaller museums being more willing to engage in a discussion in my experience. It also helps if you can provide a few references and sources for them to pursue.

The last one I got a positive response on was a small regional museum which was exhibiting a 19th century kaskara as 15th century Spanish! They were actually very receptive to being contacted as they don't have any specialized staff and were planning to change the labeling last I heard.

If nothing else, it gives peace of mind I think to at least be able to say I tried to let them know if there's something obviously out of place.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ibrahiim and all, I have found that museums in general do not want to be told that they are wrong, here is another example. Recently I spotted this image being posted all over the internet. It is a samurai full face mask (somen), there is no doubt about that, anyone can google "samurai somen" and come up with matching images. There are several different versions of this somen but all have the same basic description.

So I did a little detective work and found the photographer responsible for taking one of the images, he was actually very cordial, he stated that he simply copied the museums description of the image and he felt that seeing the respectable nature of the museum (The Wellcome Collection) that owns the somen that they must be right in the accuracy of the description, but he did say that if the museum changed their description that he would do the same on his images.

So I did a little more digging and found links to the images with the wrong description. (http://wellcomeimages.org/indexplus/image/M0005113.html) and (http://wellcomeimages.org/indexplus/image/M0005114.html). So I thought that this would be an easy one, I contacted the museum many months ago and sent them all of the information they would need to see that the item being described as a "European executioners mask" was in fact a samurai somen. Well the mask is still mislabeled and the museum never replied to me.

Update, after contacting the Wellcome Collection again I finally received a response.

I am writing to thank you for your e-mail of 11 September letting us know about the mis-identification of the Japanese Somen which features in our permanent exhibition “Medicine Man” (currently suspended while building work is completed).

We are very grateful to you for pointing out this mis-identification which seems to have come with the object when it was originally acquired for Henry Wellcome’s collection, but has obviously been repeated in different places at different times.

The Somen will go on display again in February next year when our permanent exhibitions re-open, and the accompanying ‘information’ will of course be corrected in accordance with the information you have kindly passed on.

With many thanks for your help, and very best wishes, James

James Peto
Senior Curator
Public Programmes
Wellcome Trust
215 Euston Rd
London NW1 2BE

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Update, after contacting the Wellcome Collection again I finally received a response.

Bravo !!!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Shakethetrees]

Sometime the squeaky wheel gets the oil!

Unless someone in staff knows you or you have written books that are widely known, you could be a crackpot. If they get a lot of comments, then they will investigate.

Also, if a case is sealed for a certain time that will not open it to change a label unless there is so much commentary it becomes an embarrassment.