Sickle Knife, India ???

Billman · 18th September 2013, 07:14 PM

I have several of these, one bought with some other tools (from the Indian subcontinent), and seen several others. Mine are not to hand, but I have a couple of images of some sold in France a year or two ago, plus a few others of similar tools...

Sorry I cannot be more specific, but at least you know it is not a unique piece, and that the method of construction (a steel blade inserted into an ornamented iron stock) was common in some (unknown) region...

As three turned up in France (and I also bought one of mine there) they may be from the French speaking regions of Puducherry or Chandannagar on the eastern coast of India (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_French)

Note images 3 and 4 are from different tools (4 was sold without a handle) - the other seem to have a teak like wooden handle... (site has just changed order of images - now images 1 & 2)

manteris1 · 18th September 2013, 07:23 PM

what about this.............jimmy

Billman · 18th September 2013, 07:29 PM

Can you please add a full side on image to the above?? It may help to identify its origins... I would class this as a billhook (or pruning hook/tea hook) - the tool in question is almost certainly a harvesting sickle...

M ELEY · 18th September 2013, 11:43 PM

I am amazed at how closely this item resembles Spanish colonail pieces with some of their decoration, design, tooled handle. The decorations nearly exactly match those found on Spanish colonial swords. My Brazilian espada, discussed at length in other threads, has the odd star patterns and line designs like these. Furthermore, on many espada ancha, we see the odd hook-like protrusions like those found on these. Some of the protrusions on espada go a step futher by making them into snakes. On Billman's example, we see the Moroccan-style flyssa-type hilt on one of these pieces. This exactly matches the Brazilian cutlass patterns, as seen on this site and in museum collections. I understadn that many of these themes were borrowed and found in other cultures, but could one theorize that at the very least, we see a cross-over of cultures with these pieces? My .2 cents.

Billman · 19th September 2013, 09:14 AM

Hi, I collect billhooks - now have over 6000 from various countries and continents - one thing I have noticed is parallel development in shapes, handles, methods of construction etc. Japanese and Chinese billhooks are very similar to European ones - they have had them for at least as long as we have had in the West (at least 2000 years). Ditto those from India and Africa, in fact almost any civilisation that has had iron working in its development.

Similar parallel development can be in other basic hand tools: sickles, axes, adzes & hammers and in weapons: spears, swords, bows & arrows...

The same is probably also true in respect of ornamentation/decoration e.g. scroll work, inlay and incised decoration. I have decorated billhooks from several different countries - certain types of decoration are common in tools from widely separated areas, especially punched (or chiseled) lines, curves, whorls, stars and combinations thereof...

My best guess is that tools of this type were used by women on a daily basis. India has a tradition of decorated tools, especially sickles. These may have been part of a marriage dowry, or a gift from the groom to the bride. Judging by the degree of wear on some of the blades, they were regularly used over a long period of time. Searches of images for rice or grain harvest show mainly women working in the fields - the men undertaking the heavier tasks such as ploughing the land....

manteris1 · 19th September 2013, 07:34 PM

pretty fancy for a farm tool............jimmy

Billman · 19th September 2013, 08:40 PM

Hi Jimmy

At first glance of the blade shape, I would say Italian, maybe Austrian - chip carving is common on items from the European Alps, and a mushroom type handle although rare in Italy, is not unknown. Having said that it could be Asian - without provenance it is very difficult to accurately place a tool that is found worldwide, is often rehandled, and that was often exported or taken overseas by colonists.

The handle decoration is not something I have seen before, but is typical of the sort of work done in rural communities, either to pass the time, or to personalize an object. I guess this is (or was) a common practice worldwide - before TV, radio and mobile phone there was not a lot to do in the long winter evenings...

In the second image, there appears to be some marks on the blade.... These may help in identifying its origin, as would close examination of the blade to look for forging marks, weld lines etc.

Identification of the wood of the handle may also be an aid to origins - beech and light woods are more common in Europe, teak and darker woods in Asia (but there is no hard and fast rule, as handles are often made of any wood that is handy - the Japanese use white oak)

not2sharp · 14th October 2013, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manteris1

what about this.............jimmy

It looks like a tea knife.

n2s

Billman · 18th October 2013, 10:09 PM

Tea knives/pruning hooks tended to be quite small - blades about 6" long - but all pruning prior to the invention of the secateur c1830 was carried out using a small billhook/pruning hook, so it could be used for any sort of pruning: fruit trees, bushes, roses, berry plants - as well as for hedging and coppicing work - a true 'jack of all trades' type of tool...

spiral · 18th October 2013, 10:43 PM

Buffalo {of all types.} cow, goat, bull, sheep & ram are all hollow at the base of the horn, & have varying amounts of solid horn towards the tip, water buffalo having the greater proportion solid though compared to the other species.

Spiral

Billman · 31st December 2013, 05:15 PM

Hi Manteris1 - the more I look at this tool the more I think it may actually be Spanish in origin - no reason I can think of, just a gut feeling..

18th September 2013, 07:14 PM	#1
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	I have several of these, one bought with some other tools (from the Indian subcontinent), and seen several others. Mine are not to hand, but I have a couple of images of some sold in France a year or two ago, plus a few others of similar tools... Sorry I cannot be more specific, but at least you know it is not a unique piece, and that the method of construction (a steel blade inserted into an ornamented iron stock) was common in some (unknown) region... As three turned up in France (and I also bought one of mine there) they may be from the French speaking regions of Puducherry or Chandannagar on the eastern coast of India (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_French) Note images 3 and 4 are from different tools (4 was sold without a handle) - the other seem to have a teak like wooden handle... (site has just changed order of images - now images 1 & 2) Attached Images Last edited by Billman; 19th September 2013 at 08:56 AM.

18th September 2013, 07:23 PM	#2
manteris1 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 114	what about this.............jimmy Attached Images

18th September 2013, 11:43 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	I am amazed at how closely this item resembles Spanish colonail pieces with some of their decoration, design, tooled handle. The decorations nearly exactly match those found on Spanish colonial swords. My Brazilian espada, discussed at length in other threads, has the odd star patterns and line designs like these. Furthermore, on many espada ancha, we see the odd hook-like protrusions like those found on these. Some of the protrusions on espada go a step futher by making them into snakes. On Billman's example, we see the Moroccan-style flyssa-type hilt on one of these pieces. This exactly matches the Brazilian cutlass patterns, as seen on this site and in museum collections. I understadn that many of these themes were borrowed and found in other cultures, but could one theorize that at the very least, we see a cross-over of cultures with these pieces? My .2 cents. Last edited by M ELEY; 19th September 2013 at 12:00 AM.

19th September 2013, 09:14 AM	#5
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Hi, I collect billhooks - now have over 6000 from various countries and continents - one thing I have noticed is parallel development in shapes, handles, methods of construction etc. Japanese and Chinese billhooks are very similar to European ones - they have had them for at least as long as we have had in the West (at least 2000 years). Ditto those from India and Africa, in fact almost any civilisation that has had iron working in its development. Similar parallel development can be in other basic hand tools: sickles, axes, adzes & hammers and in weapons: spears, swords, bows & arrows... The same is probably also true in respect of ornamentation/decoration e.g. scroll work, inlay and incised decoration. I have decorated billhooks from several different countries - certain types of decoration are common in tools from widely separated areas, especially punched (or chiseled) lines, curves, whorls, stars and combinations thereof... My best guess is that tools of this type were used by women on a daily basis. India has a tradition of decorated tools, especially sickles. These may have been part of a marriage dowry, or a gift from the groom to the bride. Judging by the degree of wear on some of the blades, they were regularly used over a long period of time. Searches of images for rice or grain harvest show mainly women working in the fields - the men undertaking the heavier tasks such as ploughing the land.... Last edited by Billman; 19th September 2013 at 09:45 AM.

19th September 2013, 07:34 PM	#6
manteris1 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 114	more photo's pretty fancy for a farm tool............jimmy Attached Images

18th September 2013, 07:29 PM	#3
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Can you please add a full side on image to the above?? It may help to identify its origins... I would class this as a billhook (or pruning hook/tea hook) - the tool in question is almost certainly a harvesting sickle...

19th September 2013, 08:40 PM	#7
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Hi Jimmy At first glance of the blade shape, I would say Italian, maybe Austrian - chip carving is common on items from the European Alps, and a mushroom type handle although rare in Italy, is not unknown. Having said that it could be Asian - without provenance it is very difficult to accurately place a tool that is found worldwide, is often rehandled, and that was often exported or taken overseas by colonists. The handle decoration is not something I have seen before, but is typical of the sort of work done in rural communities, either to pass the time, or to personalize an object. I guess this is (or was) a common practice worldwide - before TV, radio and mobile phone there was not a lot to do in the long winter evenings... In the second image, there appears to be some marks on the blade.... These may help in identifying its origin, as would close examination of the blade to look for forging marks, weld lines etc. Identification of the wood of the handle may also be an aid to origins - beech and light woods are more common in Europe, teak and darker woods in Asia (but there is no hard and fast rule, as handles are often made of any wood that is handy - the Japanese use white oak)

18th October 2013, 10:09 PM	#9
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Tea knives/pruning hooks tended to be quite small - blades about 6" long - but all pruning prior to the invention of the secateur c1830 was carried out using a small billhook/pruning hook, so it could be used for any sort of pruning: fruit trees, bushes, roses, berry plants - as well as for hedging and coppicing work - a true 'jack of all trades' type of tool...

18th October 2013, 10:43 PM	#10
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Buffalo {of all types.} cow, goat, bull, sheep & ram are all hollow at the base of the horn, & have varying amounts of solid horn towards the tip, water buffalo having the greater proportion solid though compared to the other species. Spiral

31st December 2013, 05:15 PM	#11
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Hi Manteris1 - the more I look at this tool the more I think it may actually be Spanish in origin - no reason I can think of, just a gut feeling..