MOST DESIRED OCEANIC WAR CLUBS 3: FIJI

VANDOO · 15th August 2013, 09:35 PM

HERE ARE A FEW MORE EXAMPLES OF THE CULACULA FORM OF CLUB FROM A PREVIOUS SECTION TO ADD TO THE REFRENCE.

VANDOO · 15th August 2013, 10:29 PM

THIS IS THE LAST OF THE CULACULA FORM CLUBS THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE PICTURES OF. THE PICTURES I HAVE POSTED ON THIS CLUB FORM SO FAR SHOW A GOOD REPRESENITIVE VARIETY OF OLD AS WELL AS REPLICA CLUBS.
THE CLUB IN THE LAST PICTURE IS 111CM. LONG

KraVseR · 16th August 2013, 08:01 AM

And that a musket in the fourth picture?
Fijians used a firearm or not?

CharlesS · 16th August 2013, 01:50 PM

Vandoo,

This is a area I know absolutely nothing about, and just wanted to tell you how much I have enjoyed this thread, the excellent pics of pieces, and the historical photos.

Bully for you!

VANDOO · 16th August 2013, 07:16 PM

YES A MUSKET IN ONE PICTURE , CLUNNIE COVERS FIREARMS USED IN FIJI THAT ARE IN THE FIJI MUSEUM ON PAGE 44 ARE 2 PICTURES OF A SIMULAR MUSKET AND HE COVERS MUSKETS AND PISTOLS ON PLATE 40 AND 42 IN HIS BOOK. THIS MUSKET WAS IN A GROUP OF TOP QUALITY CLUBS OFFERED IN AN OLD AUCTION AND IS LIKELY FROM FIJI. I WISH I HAD BETTER PICTURES TO SEE IF IT HAD FIJI CARVING OR IVORY INLAY. WHEN CONTACT WAS MADE MUSKETS WERE NO DOUBT OFFERED TO CHIEFS IN TRADE OR TO ESTABLISH FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH THE TRIBE. MUSKETS AND OTHER EUROPEAN GOODS NO DOUBT FELL INTO FIJIAN HANDS AND STOMACHS WHEN BATTLES WERE FOUGHT OR AMBUSHES LAID.

VANDOO · 16th August 2013, 07:53 PM

WHAT IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS THE GUN STOCK CLUB IS THE MOST COMMON FORM OF FIJI CLUB FOUND BUT THERE IS VARIETY IN USE AND TYPE IN THIS CATEGORY WHICH IS OFTEN OVERLOOKED. THE TERM GUNSTOCK IS NOT A GOOD ONE AS THIS FORM HAD BEEN IN USE IN FIJI LONG BEFORE CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WITH GUNS. CLUNNIE RIGHTLY SUGGESTS GUN STOCK SHOULD BE DISCARDED AND PERHAPS REPLACED WITH SPURRED CLUBS.
KIAKAVO , KIAKAVA OR ULULALA THESE CLUBS WERE FOR CEREMONIAL USE AND DANCING. THEY WERE RARELY IF EVER USED FOR FIGHTING SO LACKED A CUTTING EDGE. THE UNDERSIDE OF THE HEAD IS ROUNDED IN KIAKAVO, NOT ANGLED AS IN AS WITH GATA AND SALI SPURED CLUBS. TRUE KIAKAVA WERE SMALL AND LIGHT FOR DANCING AND WERE REFERRED TO AS KIAKAVO DINA. A TYPE OF THIS FORM WAS CALLED KIAKAVO VIVIDRASA WHICH REFERS TO THE MAGIMAGI COIR SENNET HANDLE WRAPINGS. I HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF THE KIAKAVO SHOWN ON CLUNIES FIGURE 1 IT IS ITEM C, PAGE 52. THIS EXAMPLE IS 29 INCHES LONG AND HAS A FULLY WRAPPED HANDLE ( FIBER WRAP IN POOR SHAPE). IT COULD BE USED FOR FIGHTING BUT AS MENTIONED ABOVE HAS NO SHARP SPUR OR EDGE AND IS SMALLER THAN THE AVERAGE FIGHTING CLUB.
HERE ARE 3 MORE PICTURES SHOWING A COMPARASON OF THE DANCE CLUB AND OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE A GOOD OLD FIGHTING CLUB OF THE SAME GENERAL FORM. THE FIGHTING CLUB IS 35 INCHES LONG AND HAS SEVERAL DIFFERENCES IN THE HEAD SHAPE WITH MORE BLADE LIKE STRIKING EDGES. THE BUTT END HAS THE PHALLIC SHAPE FOUND ON MOST OLDER FIJIAN CLUBS THAT HAVE LITTLE TONGAN INFLUENCE.
IN CLUNIE'S BOOK IT USES THE NAME KIAKAVA TO REFER ONLY TO DANCE CLUBS AND THE PICTURES ON PLATE 1 ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE DANCE CLUBS. ON MY SMALL EXAMPLE WITH THE WRAPPED HANDLE IT IS EASY TO SEE THE THINGS HE REFERS TO THAT SETS THEM APART, ON MY OTHER EXAMPLE MANY OF THESE INDICATORS ARE DIFFERENT? HERE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES CLOSE TO THIS FORM ONE WITH INSET HUMAN TEETH IT IS 35 INCHES LONG. TWO EXAMPLES HAVE FIBER RINGS ON THEM. UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE NO FURTHER INFO ON THESE EXAMPLES.

KraVseR · 16th August 2013, 08:20 PM

Thank you.
And muskets used by other warriors of the Oceania, yes? Samoans, Solomons, Tongan, etc.

VANDOO · 26th August 2013, 05:55 PM

ONE IMPORTANT THING I LEFT OUT ON IDENTIFYING THE KIAKAVO FORM OF CLUB. THERE IS A SMALL ROUNDED RIDGE LOCATED AT THE CROTCH OF THE SPUR AT THE HEAD OF THE CLUB. IT IS CALLED TERETERE AFTER THE COMB OF A ROOSTER OR THE FRILL OF THE IGUANA LIZZARD. THIS VERY RARELY SHOWS UP ON THE OTHER FORMS OF SPURRED CLUBS. SEE PICTURE .

colin henshaw · 10th September 2013, 02:57 PM

As an aside to VANDOO's thread - the Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Cambridge, England currently has showing an excellent exhibition, "Chiefs & Governors, Art and Power in Fiji" with many examples of clubs, spears and other Fijian artefacts.

See www.maa.cam.ac.uk

VANDOO · 10th September 2013, 06:41 PM

THANKS COLIN PERHAPS I CAN FIND AN EXCUSE TO POP OVER FOR A LOOK BEFORE THE EXHIBIT ENDS.

I SEE THE FORUMS AS A LIVING REFRENCE AND RESOURCE, WHERE INFORMATION AND PICTURES CAN BE GATHERED AND NEW THINGS ADDED AND QUESTIONS ASKED BY ALL.
WHAT I HAVE DONE WITH THE FIJI POST AS WELL AS THE OTHER POSTS ON CLUBS IS TO ESTABLISH A ROUGH FOUNDATION FOCUSED ON ARTEFACTS FROM THESE AREAS. THIS MAKES IT EASIER TO FIND INFORMATION ON EACH AREA WHEN INFORMATION, PICTURES AND QUESTIONS ARE GATHERED IN ONE PLACE. ANYONE MAY ACCESS THESE POSTS AND PERHAPS FIND THE INFORMATION SOUGHT OR IDENTIFY THEIR CLUB AND HOPEFULLY POST A PICTURE OF THEIR ITEM TO ADD TO THE RESOURCE.

I HOPE IT WILL GROW OVER TIME AND PERHAPS INSPIRE INTREST IN SOME YOUNGSTER TO PURSUE KNOWLEGE IN THE FIELD. THEN PERHAPS IT WILL YEILD SOME NEEDED REFRENCE BOOKS IN THE FUTURE.

THIS IS ALL I HAVE AT PRESENT SO I STOP HERE UNTIL MORE INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO POST PICTURES AND INFORMATION, ASK QUESTIONS OR CORRECT ME IF I HAVE MADE MISTAKES.

Sajen · 10th September 2013, 08:25 PM

Thank you Barry for this great and informativeinformative thread.

Can add this two plates from "Handbook to the Ethnographical Collections", Britsh Musem from 1910.

motan · 17th January 2017, 09:53 AM

Totally not my area, but wonderful stuff, as usual.

VANDOO · 18th January 2017, 10:58 PM

#1., & #2. FIJI GUGU CLUB WITH FULL WRAP, 31.5 INCHES LONG
#3. PRESENTS WERE PRESENTED TO THE CHIEFS AT CERTAIN TIMES. THIS SHOWS SOME OF THE ITEMS PRESENTED ON SUCH OCCASIONS, OVER 7 MILES OF CORD MADE FROM COCONUT HUSKS GOOD FOR MANY THINGS ESPECIALLY RIGGING ON CANOES. MATS, KAVA KAVA BOWLS ,SWEET POTATOES ,ECT. AND PERHAPS A FEW CLUBS. A FEAST USUALLY ACCOMPANIED THE CEREMONY AND FESTIVITY'S.
#4. FIJI TOTOKIA CLUB 88 CM. LONG 1800'S TO MID 1900'S
#5. A MODERN TOURIST CLUB FIJI , FANTASY NON- TRADITIONAL
#6. THRU #10. FIJI CLUB A UNUSUAL FORM THAT I HAVE FOUND NO NAME FOR
#11. A FORM IDENTIFIED AS FROM FIJI, I AM NOT SURE OF THIS ONE AS THE FORM THOUGH UNUSUAL IS FOUND OVER A WIDE REGION.
THANKS FOR THE REPLY THEY ARE ALWAYS WELCOME, ALL OF MY CLUB POSTS ARE AN OPEN REFERENCE SO PICTURES AND INFORMATION ON ANY FIJI CLUBS WOULD BE WELCOME HERE FROM ANY FORUM MEMBERS. IF YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER JOIN UP ITS FREE AND THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE FREE.

drac2k · 22nd December 2018, 04:36 PM

I recently acquired several clubs; among these is what I believe to be a Fijian KiaKavo Club. These have been referred to by some as a "Dance Club," however this one is so massive & heavy that is not conducive to dancing; it measures 38" long and it has a 7" circumference on the smallest part of the handle.
I thought it to be an oddball, but once again VANDOO'S thread came to the rescue showing warriors holding similar huge clubs.
In regards to the other two items, at least one or both could be food pounders; they are very heavy and the measure approx. 24" long. Any help would be appreciated.

Tim Simmons · 23rd December 2018, 06:02 PM

Your Fijian club looks rather late but still a very nice example. What a person writes in a book can become the definitive view for the unimaginative. In the 19th century the Fijians may well of danced with their clubs just as much as they spit head open with them. As I say your club does late. What I find far more interesting are the two other clubs far less common and at the time being I do not think they are Fijian, certainly the one with the decorated handle. I need some time to check. Really like the decorated one. I have sold all my Fijian clubs, many are far from rare even ubiquitous especially the Ulas but still command high prices here in the UK. The two interesting will be over looked.

ps. I have made up my mind the two nice clubs are not Fijian. They are from further east of the islands of Fiji

26th August 2013, 05:55 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ONE IMPORTANT THING I LEFT OUT ON IDENTIFYING THE KIAKAVO FORM OF CLUB. THERE IS A SMALL ROUNDED RIDGE LOCATED AT THE CROTCH OF THE SPUR AT THE HEAD OF THE CLUB. IT IS CALLED TERETERE AFTER THE COMB OF A ROOSTER OR THE FRILL OF THE IGUANA LIZZARD. THIS VERY RARELY SHOWS UP ON THE OTHER FORMS OF SPURRED CLUBS. SEE PICTURE . Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 27th August 2013 at 01:15 AM.

17th January 2017, 09:53 AM	#12
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Thanks Totally not my area, but wonderful stuff, as usual.

18th January 2017, 10:58 PM	#13
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	#1., & #2. FIJI GUGU CLUB WITH FULL WRAP, 31.5 INCHES LONG #3. PRESENTS WERE PRESENTED TO THE CHIEFS AT CERTAIN TIMES. THIS SHOWS SOME OF THE ITEMS PRESENTED ON SUCH OCCASIONS, OVER 7 MILES OF CORD MADE FROM COCONUT HUSKS GOOD FOR MANY THINGS ESPECIALLY RIGGING ON CANOES. MATS, KAVA KAVA BOWLS ,SWEET POTATOES ,ECT. AND PERHAPS A FEW CLUBS. A FEAST USUALLY ACCOMPANIED THE CEREMONY AND FESTIVITY'S. #4. FIJI TOTOKIA CLUB 88 CM. LONG 1800'S TO MID 1900'S #5. A MODERN TOURIST CLUB FIJI , FANTASY NON- TRADITIONAL #6. THRU #10. FIJI CLUB A UNUSUAL FORM THAT I HAVE FOUND NO NAME FOR #11. A FORM IDENTIFIED AS FROM FIJI, I AM NOT SURE OF THIS ONE AS THE FORM THOUGH UNUSUAL IS FOUND OVER A WIDE REGION. THANKS FOR THE REPLY THEY ARE ALWAYS WELCOME, ALL OF MY CLUB POSTS ARE AN OPEN REFERENCE SO PICTURES AND INFORMATION ON ANY FIJI CLUBS WOULD BE WELCOME HERE FROM ANY FORUM MEMBERS. IF YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER JOIN UP ITS FREE AND THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE FREE. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 18th January 2017 at 11:11 PM.

22nd December 2018, 04:36 PM	#14
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,294	Fijian KiaKavo Club & 2 others I recently acquired several clubs; among these is what I believe to be a Fijian KiaKavo Club. These have been referred to by some as a "Dance Club," however this one is so massive & heavy that is not conducive to dancing; it measures 38" long and it has a 7" circumference on the smallest part of the handle. I thought it to be an oddball, but once again VANDOO'S thread came to the rescue showing warriors holding similar huge clubs. In regards to the other two items, at least one or both could be food pounders; they are very heavy and the measure approx. 24" long. Any help would be appreciated. Attached Images

15th August 2013, 09:35 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE ARE A FEW MORE EXAMPLES OF THE CULACULA FORM OF CLUB FROM A PREVIOUS SECTION TO ADD TO THE REFRENCE. Attached Images

15th August 2013, 10:29 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THIS IS THE LAST OF THE CULACULA FORM CLUBS THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE PICTURES OF. THE PICTURES I HAVE POSTED ON THIS CLUB FORM SO FAR SHOW A GOOD REPRESENITIVE VARIETY OF OLD AS WELL AS REPLICA CLUBS. THE CLUB IN THE LAST PICTURE IS 111CM. LONG Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 15th August 2013 at 10:39 PM.

16th August 2013, 08:01 AM	#3
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	And that a musket in the fourth picture? Fijians used a firearm or not?

16th August 2013, 01:50 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Vandoo, This is a area I know absolutely nothing about, and just wanted to tell you how much I have enjoyed this thread, the excellent pics of pieces, and the historical photos. Bully for you!

16th August 2013, 07:16 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YES A MUSKET IN ONE PICTURE , CLUNNIE COVERS FIREARMS USED IN FIJI THAT ARE IN THE FIJI MUSEUM ON PAGE 44 ARE 2 PICTURES OF A SIMULAR MUSKET AND HE COVERS MUSKETS AND PISTOLS ON PLATE 40 AND 42 IN HIS BOOK. THIS MUSKET WAS IN A GROUP OF TOP QUALITY CLUBS OFFERED IN AN OLD AUCTION AND IS LIKELY FROM FIJI. I WISH I HAD BETTER PICTURES TO SEE IF IT HAD FIJI CARVING OR IVORY INLAY. WHEN CONTACT WAS MADE MUSKETS WERE NO DOUBT OFFERED TO CHIEFS IN TRADE OR TO ESTABLISH FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH THE TRIBE. MUSKETS AND OTHER EUROPEAN GOODS NO DOUBT FELL INTO FIJIAN HANDS AND STOMACHS WHEN BATTLES WERE FOUGHT OR AMBUSHES LAID.

16th August 2013, 07:53 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WHAT IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS THE GUN STOCK CLUB IS THE MOST COMMON FORM OF FIJI CLUB FOUND BUT THERE IS VARIETY IN USE AND TYPE IN THIS CATEGORY WHICH IS OFTEN OVERLOOKED. THE TERM GUNSTOCK IS NOT A GOOD ONE AS THIS FORM HAD BEEN IN USE IN FIJI LONG BEFORE CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WITH GUNS. CLUNNIE RIGHTLY SUGGESTS GUN STOCK SHOULD BE DISCARDED AND PERHAPS REPLACED WITH SPURRED CLUBS. KIAKAVO , KIAKAVA OR ULULALA THESE CLUBS WERE FOR CEREMONIAL USE AND DANCING. THEY WERE RARELY IF EVER USED FOR FIGHTING SO LACKED A CUTTING EDGE. THE UNDERSIDE OF THE HEAD IS ROUNDED IN KIAKAVO, NOT ANGLED AS IN AS WITH GATA AND SALI SPURED CLUBS. TRUE KIAKAVA WERE SMALL AND LIGHT FOR DANCING AND WERE REFERRED TO AS KIAKAVO DINA. A TYPE OF THIS FORM WAS CALLED KIAKAVO VIVIDRASA WHICH REFERS TO THE MAGIMAGI COIR SENNET HANDLE WRAPINGS. I HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF THE KIAKAVO SHOWN ON CLUNIES FIGURE 1 IT IS ITEM C, PAGE 52. THIS EXAMPLE IS 29 INCHES LONG AND HAS A FULLY WRAPPED HANDLE ( FIBER WRAP IN POOR SHAPE). IT COULD BE USED FOR FIGHTING BUT AS MENTIONED ABOVE HAS NO SHARP SPUR OR EDGE AND IS SMALLER THAN THE AVERAGE FIGHTING CLUB. HERE ARE 3 MORE PICTURES SHOWING A COMPARASON OF THE DANCE CLUB AND OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE A GOOD OLD FIGHTING CLUB OF THE SAME GENERAL FORM. THE FIGHTING CLUB IS 35 INCHES LONG AND HAS SEVERAL DIFFERENCES IN THE HEAD SHAPE WITH MORE BLADE LIKE STRIKING EDGES. THE BUTT END HAS THE PHALLIC SHAPE FOUND ON MOST OLDER FIJIAN CLUBS THAT HAVE LITTLE TONGAN INFLUENCE. IN CLUNIE'S BOOK IT USES THE NAME KIAKAVA TO REFER ONLY TO DANCE CLUBS AND THE PICTURES ON PLATE 1 ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE DANCE CLUBS. ON MY SMALL EXAMPLE WITH THE WRAPPED HANDLE IT IS EASY TO SEE THE THINGS HE REFERS TO THAT SETS THEM APART, ON MY OTHER EXAMPLE MANY OF THESE INDICATORS ARE DIFFERENT? HERE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES CLOSE TO THIS FORM ONE WITH INSET HUMAN TEETH IT IS 35 INCHES LONG. TWO EXAMPLES HAVE FIBER RINGS ON THEM. UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE NO FURTHER INFO ON THESE EXAMPLES. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 17th August 2013 at 03:34 AM.

16th August 2013, 08:20 PM	#7
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Thank you. And muskets used by other warriors of the Oceania, yes? Samoans, Solomons, Tongan, etc.

10th September 2013, 02:57 PM	#9
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	As an aside to VANDOO's thread - the Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Cambridge, England currently has showing an excellent exhibition, "Chiefs & Governors, Art and Power in Fiji" with many examples of clubs, spears and other Fijian artefacts. See www.maa.cam.ac.uk

10th September 2013, 06:41 PM	#10
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THANKS COLIN PERHAPS I CAN FIND AN EXCUSE TO POP OVER FOR A LOOK BEFORE THE EXHIBIT ENDS. I SEE THE FORUMS AS A LIVING REFRENCE AND RESOURCE, WHERE INFORMATION AND PICTURES CAN BE GATHERED AND NEW THINGS ADDED AND QUESTIONS ASKED BY ALL. WHAT I HAVE DONE WITH THE FIJI POST AS WELL AS THE OTHER POSTS ON CLUBS IS TO ESTABLISH A ROUGH FOUNDATION FOCUSED ON ARTEFACTS FROM THESE AREAS. THIS MAKES IT EASIER TO FIND INFORMATION ON EACH AREA WHEN INFORMATION, PICTURES AND QUESTIONS ARE GATHERED IN ONE PLACE. ANYONE MAY ACCESS THESE POSTS AND PERHAPS FIND THE INFORMATION SOUGHT OR IDENTIFY THEIR CLUB AND HOPEFULLY POST A PICTURE OF THEIR ITEM TO ADD TO THE RESOURCE. I HOPE IT WILL GROW OVER TIME AND PERHAPS INSPIRE INTREST IN SOME YOUNGSTER TO PURSUE KNOWLEGE IN THE FIELD. THEN PERHAPS IT WILL YEILD SOME NEEDED REFRENCE BOOKS IN THE FUTURE. THIS IS ALL I HAVE AT PRESENT SO I STOP HERE UNTIL MORE INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO POST PICTURES AND INFORMATION, ASK QUESTIONS OR CORRECT ME IF I HAVE MADE MISTAKES.

10th September 2013, 08:25 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,418	Thank you Barry for this great and informativeinformative thread. Can add this two plates from "Handbook to the Ethnographical Collections", Britsh Musem from 1910. Attached Images

23rd December 2018, 06:02 PM	#15
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Your Fijian club looks rather late but still a very nice example. What a person writes in a book can become the definitive view for the unimaginative. In the 19th century the Fijians may well of danced with their clubs just as much as they spit head open with them. As I say your club does late. What I find far more interesting are the two other clubs far less common and at the time being I do not think they are Fijian, certainly the one with the decorated handle. I need some time to check. Really like the decorated one. I have sold all my Fijian clubs, many are far from rare even ubiquitous especially the Ulas but still command high prices here in the UK. The two interesting will be over looked. ps. I have made up my mind the two nice clubs are not Fijian. They are from further east of the islands of Fiji