When is a Tulwar not a Tulwar?

Jens Nordlunde · 4th August 2013, 05:07 PM

Sorry Jim, but I think you are going too far, if you say, that the sword shown at the top is a tulwar.
In my opinion you can have a tulwar with a shamshir blade, a tulwar with an Afghan blade, a tulwar with a European blade or a tulwar with an Indian blade - mostly slightly curved. So it seems as if the hilt is more important than the blade form. To this comes, that whatever the blade form/place of origin is, a special name is attached to the tulwar.
When this is said, I may as well add, that you can find tulwar hilts with kukri blades, just as you will find Sosun Patta's with a tulwar hilt - but none of them are tulwars.
Jens

Jim McDougall · 5th August 2013, 07:05 AM

Actually what I said was that, as far as I have understood, the term used in many of the North Indian dialects to describe sword pictured (not otherwise described) is often 'tulwar'. Therefore what we think of as a shamshir, when in use in Indian context, may be called a tulwar by speakers of these dialects, while those speaking English may called it a saber.

Since I am not a linguist, nor authority on Indian arms such as tulwar, I suppose what the sword pictured would depend on who is describing it....but no matter what name it is called by, it is still a sword in function. So that is what I meant......not that it IS a tulwar, but that is what it might be called in Indian terms.

Just think of how many years of entertainment we have had with these classification terms, and the convoluted distortions that have risen from transliteration, semantics, misperceptions and outright errors (such as the jamadhar/katar mishap in Egerton). The 'collectors terms' in many other cases are an entirely other field day!

4th August 2013, 05:07 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Sorry Jim, but I think you are going too far, if you say, that the sword shown at the top is a tulwar. In my opinion you can have a tulwar with a shamshir blade, a tulwar with an Afghan blade, a tulwar with a European blade or a tulwar with an Indian blade - mostly slightly curved. So it seems as if the hilt is more important than the blade form. To this comes, that whatever the blade form/place of origin is, a special name is attached to the tulwar. When this is said, I may as well add, that you can find tulwar hilts with kukri blades, just as you will find Sosun Patta's with a tulwar hilt - but none of them are tulwars. Jens

5th August 2013, 07:05 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Actually what I said was that, as far as I have understood, the term used in many of the North Indian dialects to describe sword pictured (not otherwise described) is often 'tulwar'. Therefore what we think of as a shamshir, when in use in Indian context, may be called a tulwar by speakers of these dialects, while those speaking English may called it a saber. Since I am not a linguist, nor authority on Indian arms such as tulwar, I suppose what the sword pictured would depend on who is describing it....but no matter what name it is called by, it is still a sword in function. So that is what I meant......not that it IS a tulwar, but that is what it might be called in Indian terms. Just think of how many years of entertainment we have had with these classification terms, and the convoluted distortions that have risen from transliteration, semantics, misperceptions and outright errors (such as the jamadhar/katar mishap in Egerton). The 'collectors terms' in many other cases are an entirely other field day!