Interpretation of the Pre-Islamic Javanese Keris

rasdan · 14th June 2013, 12:52 PM

Wow.. Have not finished reading it, but I have an instinct that this publication will clear up many of my unfinished thoughts on keris symbolism that had been lingering in my mind for quite some time. Precious! Thanks Alan!

Jean · 14th June 2013, 07:27 PM

Alan,
What a fascinating and novel article in my view, very documented and clearly written, congratulations and thanks! I was privileged to receive it few weeks ago and read it carefully but I will need to come back to it several times for fully absorbing it, and it gave me the motivation to learn more about the Javanese and Balinese culture as you strongly invite us to do!

Best regards

Montino Bourbon · 14th June 2013, 10:33 PM

this is an excellent article. I just read the whole thing, and plan on going back and rereading it very slowly.

Rick · 15th June 2013, 01:33 AM

I think the research combined with the hands-on experience at the forge makes for a compelling argument .

Jussi M. · 17th June 2013, 08:44 AM

It is indeed a rare occasion when paradigms do shift. Shall this article become the catalyst of such a event thus remains to be seen in the decades to follow. Regardless the possible outcome(s) the article itself is a triumph achievement and deserves to be treated as such regardless whether one chooses to agree, or disagree, with the actual information embedded on it. Past facts and findings we humans usually end up seeing what we want to see and hearing what we want to hear. In this regards the keris represented and still continues to represent a system of belief. I personally will most probably never look at a keris like I did before reading this article. Thank you.

Rick · 17th June 2013, 04:39 PM

Maybe you'll even count the luks differently .

A. G. Maisey · 17th June 2013, 10:28 PM

I don't think its a good idea to count the luk in the different way that I have suggested was used during Majapahit times. That was possibly a system that applied at that time, but there has been 500 or so years of a tradition with a variant base in place since then. I'm not urging change, only understanding.

Tatyana Dianova · 18th June 2013, 07:40 AM

It took me more than week to read the article – I can only imagine what time and effort it took to write it down! Alan, it’s really great that you have found a time and desire to publish the article and share your really insightful and deep research!
The presented Keris interpretation looks really convincing to me: it is straightforward and simple, and what is simple must be also true! It would be also interesting to know, why Keris has obtained its asymmetrical outline – on the early carvings its form is symmetric.
What is also interesting is the Shiva symbolism in Keris, which can be applied perfectly to the symbolism of Indian Katar! The triangular grooves and the tree of life on the central ridge of many Katar are even more obvious than on Keris. And there are Katar which have a wavy tree of life on the central ridge – maybe another food for new ideas :-) ?

14th June 2013, 10:33 PM	#3
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	Thank you for this article, Alan! this is an excellent article. I just read the whole thing, and plan on going back and rereading it very slowly.

18th June 2013, 07:40 AM	#8
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	It took me more than week to read the article – I can only imagine what time and effort it took to write it down! Alan, it’s really great that you have found a time and desire to publish the article and share your really insightful and deep research! The presented Keris interpretation looks really convincing to me: it is straightforward and simple, and what is simple must be also true! It would be also interesting to know, why Keris has obtained its asymmetrical outline – on the early carvings its form is symmetric. What is also interesting is the Shiva symbolism in Keris, which can be applied perfectly to the symbolism of Indian Katar! The triangular grooves and the tree of life on the central ridge of many Katar are even more obvious than on Keris. And there are Katar which have a wavy tree of life on the central ridge – maybe another food for new ideas :-) ? Attached Images

14th June 2013, 12:52 PM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Wow.. Have not finished reading it, but I have an instinct that this publication will clear up many of my unfinished thoughts on keris symbolism that had been lingering in my mind for quite some time. Precious! Thanks Alan!

14th June 2013, 07:27 PM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Alan, What a fascinating and novel article in my view, very documented and clearly written, congratulations and thanks! I was privileged to receive it few weeks ago and read it carefully but I will need to come back to it several times for fully absorbing it, and it gave me the motivation to learn more about the Javanese and Balinese culture as you strongly invite us to do! Best regards

15th June 2013, 01:33 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I think the research combined with the hands-on experience at the forge makes for a compelling argument .

17th June 2013, 08:44 AM	#5
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	It is indeed a rare occasion when paradigms do shift. Shall this article become the catalyst of such a event thus remains to be seen in the decades to follow. Regardless the possible outcome(s) the article itself is a triumph achievement and deserves to be treated as such regardless whether one chooses to agree, or disagree, with the actual information embedded on it. Past facts and findings we humans usually end up seeing what we want to see and hearing what we want to hear. In this regards the keris represented and still continues to represent a system of belief. I personally will most probably never look at a keris like I did before reading this article. Thank you.

17th June 2013, 04:39 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Maybe you'll even count the luks differently .

17th June 2013, 10:28 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I don't think its a good idea to count the luk in the different way that I have suggested was used during Majapahit times. That was possibly a system that applied at that time, but there has been 500 or so years of a tradition with a variant base in place since then. I'm not urging change, only understanding.