Iraq Dagger

Aurangzeb · 17th October 2005, 11:52 PM

Perhaps it is from Jordan.

Aurangzeb · 30th October 2005, 11:30 PM

I guess this daggers origen will remain a mystery?

The use of brass and 'X' shapes still seems african. Perhaps Mali, a dagger made by locals in imatation of the arab jambiya/shbariya. HELP!

Hal Siegel · 31st October 2005, 04:02 AM

Howdy folks, and thanks, Mark - I'm glad you like the dagger even though it's giving you headaches!

Here's a picture of the dagger in question:

My original (and current) estimation is northern African somewhere ... the Berber guesstimate was Tom Hyle's thoughts on the origin.

I don't think it's a shabriya variation, the blade shape is really quite jambaic, and even the most extremely curved of the sabriya (nice collection!) doesn't really come close to being the same.

As to Iraq and Marsh Arab - also, I think not. Their hilts are sort of triangularish as shown in Mark's new whatsit, but the Marsh daggers really have a more dart/arrowhead shape to them rather than the clearly defined triangle.

Here's a Marsh dagger shown along with a modern stainless-steel bladed repro:

The blade curve/shape of the Marsh jambiya is quite similar to the blade on Mark's Mystery, but I think the pommel shape rules out Iraq in specific - although now that I look at all of these pictures together I'm certainly willing to narrow down my estimation of "nothern Africa" to eastern northern Africa (ish!)

Aurangzeb · 31st October 2005, 05:14 AM

I think in the end it will be a glorious accomplishment to pin it ot a country.

In my opinion the fact it has a crude feel to it as opposed to other nort african daggers which seem refined, and seems to be a crude imatation of arab jambiya's with some saharan-african influences like in Mali or Mauritania. One of the reasons I say Mali is the fact that Mali had strong arab ties during it's history but seems to use brass on a lot of there weapons.

Mark...

Aurangzeb · 31st October 2005, 11:05 PM

Heres a link I foumd. Look at the dagger from mali half way down the page the desighns on the hilt are idententical, three lines then a "X".

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=west+africa

Mark...

TVV · 1st November 2005, 12:04 AM

Wrong thread, please delete.

Aurangzeb · 1st November 2005, 02:06 AM

You must have missed it it's far down on the page.

1st November 2005, 12:04 AM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,727	Wrong thread, please delete. Last edited by TVV; 1st November 2005 at 01:21 AM.

17th October 2005, 11:52 PM	#1
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Perhaps it is from Jordan.

30th October 2005, 11:30 PM	#2
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	I guess this daggers origen will remain a mystery? The use of brass and 'X' shapes still seems african. Perhaps Mali, a dagger made by locals in imatation of the arab jambiya/shbariya. HELP!

31st October 2005, 04:02 AM	#3
Hal Siegel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 15	Howdy folks, and thanks, Mark - I'm glad you like the dagger even though it's giving you headaches! Here's a picture of the dagger in question: My original (and current) estimation is northern African somewhere ... the Berber guesstimate was Tom Hyle's thoughts on the origin. I don't think it's a shabriya variation, the blade shape is really quite jambaic, and even the most extremely curved of the sabriya (nice collection!) doesn't really come close to being the same. As to Iraq and Marsh Arab - also, I think not. Their hilts are sort of triangularish as shown in Mark's new whatsit, but the Marsh daggers really have a more dart/arrowhead shape to them rather than the clearly defined triangle. Here's a Marsh dagger shown along with a modern stainless-steel bladed repro: The blade curve/shape of the Marsh jambiya is quite similar to the blade on Mark's Mystery, but I think the pommel shape rules out Iraq in specific - although now that I look at all of these pictures together I'm certainly willing to narrow down my estimation of "nothern Africa" to eastern northern Africa (ish!)

31st October 2005, 05:14 AM	#4
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	I think in the end it will be a glorious accomplishment to pin it ot a country. In my opinion the fact it has a crude feel to it as opposed to other nort african daggers which seem refined, and seems to be a crude imatation of arab jambiya's with some saharan-african influences like in Mali or Mauritania. One of the reasons I say Mali is the fact that Mali had strong arab ties during it's history but seems to use brass on a lot of there weapons. Mark...

31st October 2005, 11:05 PM	#5
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Heres a link I foumd. Look at the dagger from mali half way down the page the desighns on the hilt are idententical, three lines then a "X". http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=west+africa Mark...

1st November 2005, 02:06 AM	#7
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	You must have missed it it's far down on the page.