Unusual kris with shell guard

[carlos]

Maybe Bicol kris ?

[Battara]

Actually this Bicol piece is not a kris. But yes there is mixing of cultural European infuences to be sure especially north of the Morolands.

[Robert]

Hello Carlos, There are a couple of questions that I have been meaning to ask sense you first posted this sword. Looking at the photo of the end of the hilt it looks as though the blades tang might extend completely through the hilt. If it did I would suggest that there would also have been a small butt plate that is now missing. Can you tell if there could also have been a metal ferrule that is now missing on the guard end of the hilt like on the minisbad you have pictured next to it in the photo above?

Best,
Robert

[Spunjer]

Nice catch, Carlos! it does resemble a minasbad, down to how the handle was designed. we are aware of krises from the visayan region; it's a possibility that this was the bicol region's version of kris. also, the blade looks similar to the visayan kris. not surprising; after all the regions are adjacent to each other.

also of note: i'm not sure how it is nowadays, but back in the 19th century and earlier, there were a few moro enclaves in the island of mindoro, an island not far from the visayan and bicol regions.

[Maurice]

Congratulations Carlos with your nice and absolutely rare find!

Maurice

[carlos]

Originally Posted by Robert

Hello Carlos, There are a couple of questions that I have been meaning to ask sense you first posted this sword. Looking at the photo of the end of the hilt it looks as though the blades tang might extend completely through the hilt. If it did I would suggest that there would also have been a small butt plate that is now missing. Can you tell if there could also have been a metal ferrule that is now missing on the guard end of the hilt like on the minisbad you have pictured next to it in the photo above?

Best,
Robert

Hi Robert!!
Yes, this is my impression too, the guard shell is free, I think a metal ferrule it could be there.
Best regards
carlos

[kai]

I'm with Robert here:

Looking at the photo of the end of the hilt it looks as though the blades tang might extend completely through the hilt.

Yes, that looks like a full tang!

If it did I would suggest that there would also have been a small butt plate that is now missing.

A close-up with the focus on the tip of the pommel would be great, Carlos! Can you ascertain with a magnifying glass wether hints of a lost butt plate/cap can be seen (stain, wear, etc.)? Such a pommel cap or butt plate/peened tang would kinda mess with the flow of lines of this hilt though.

Can you tell if there could also have been a metal ferrule that is now missing on the guard end of the hilt like on the minisbad you have pictured next to it in the photo above?

I am sure there originally was an octagonal silver ferrule as well as strips of silver in the grip spiral (like also seen in Barry's example).

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

I'd posit that we certainly have a pattern here!

Despite minor differences, the 2 wavy blades have obviously been crafted in the same, unique style and also have the same type of shell guard; moreover, Barry's blade is clearly from the same tradition as already noted by Gustav! And all 3 of them come with a hilt whose close relationship with the typical minasbad hilt can't be a mere coincidence and is certainly the most important feature for placing these enigmas.

Looking at the base features from a Moro POV, I agree with David that the blade esthetics are off. IMHO this (together with the consistant but unique style) clearly shows that these 3 pieces are very unlikely to have originated from a Moro (expat) community and most likely represent an acculturation by another ethnic group.

Actually this Bicol piece is not a kris.

I am not that sure, Jose. If we accept Lumad swords with kris-like base features as Lumad kris, we should also call these Bicolano kris IMVHO.

I am on record for not supporting Visayan "undulated swords" to be called kris since (except for a number of trade/booty Moro blades that got refitted in Visayan style) I see very little which supports the notion of a tradition entering another culture (rather than reproducing one or two features of a - literally - striking foreign icon).

These 3 blades are something different: they are representing an unique style of craftmanship while obviously trying to preserve most features of a Moro kris bauplan even down to minor details: IMHO this is a genuine offshoot of the evolving keris/kris tradition despite coming from a non-Hindu/non-Islamic culture.

Congrats, Carlos and Barry!

Regards,
Kai