Unusual kris with shell guard

[Robert]

Photo of guards for better comparison.


Robert

[David]

Please forgive me for what i am about to say Carlos and remember that what is most important about anything you collect is that you like it. But with everybody remarking about the beauty of this piece i simply must state that i find it to be awkward and ugly. This pieces just don't belong together, even if there is another example in the Spanish Army Museum.
I will agree that this is a not a Moro blade and that it certainly is unusual. Michael may well be onto the origin with this kris.

[carlos]

Originally Posted by David

Please forgive me for what i am about to say Carlos and remember that what is most important about anything you collect is that you like it. But with everybody remarking about the beauty of this piece i simply must state that i find it to be awkward and ugly. This pieces just don't belong together, even if there is another example in the Spanish Army Museum.
I will agree that this is a not a Moro blade and that it certainly is unusual. Michael may well be onto the origin with this kris.

hello David
All opinions ae wellcome !! I love this type of edged weapons, mixture between 2 cultures.
Best regards
Carlos

[Gavin Nugent]

Right or wrong, ugly or beautiful it is very practical.

This would install a lot of confidence in the user.

Nice to see.

Gavin

[carlos]

Maybe Bicol kris ?

[Battara]

Actually this Bicol piece is not a kris. But yes there is mixing of cultural European infuences to be sure especially north of the Morolands.

[Robert]

Hello Carlos, There are a couple of questions that I have been meaning to ask sense you first posted this sword. Looking at the photo of the end of the hilt it looks as though the blades tang might extend completely through the hilt. If it did I would suggest that there would also have been a small butt plate that is now missing. Can you tell if there could also have been a metal ferrule that is now missing on the guard end of the hilt like on the minisbad you have pictured next to it in the photo above?

Best,
Robert

[kai]

I'd posit that we certainly have a pattern here!

Despite minor differences, the 2 wavy blades have obviously been crafted in the same, unique style and also have the same type of shell guard; moreover, Barry's blade is clearly from the same tradition as already noted by Gustav! And all 3 of them come with a hilt whose close relationship with the typical minasbad hilt can't be a mere coincidence and is certainly the most important feature for placing these enigmas.

Looking at the base features from a Moro POV, I agree with David that the blade esthetics are off. IMHO this (together with the consistant but unique style) clearly shows that these 3 pieces are very unlikely to have originated from a Moro (expat) community and most likely represent an acculturation by another ethnic group.

Actually this Bicol piece is not a kris.

I am not that sure, Jose. If we accept Lumad swords with kris-like base features as Lumad kris, we should also call these Bicolano kris IMVHO.

I am on record for not supporting Visayan "undulated swords" to be called kris since (except for a number of trade/booty Moro blades that got refitted in Visayan style) I see very little which supports the notion of a tradition entering another culture (rather than reproducing one or two features of a - literally - striking foreign icon).

These 3 blades are something different: they are representing an unique style of craftmanship while obviously trying to preserve most features of a Moro kris bauplan even down to minor details: IMHO this is a genuine offshoot of the evolving keris/kris tradition despite coming from a non-Hindu/non-Islamic culture.

Congrats, Carlos and Barry!

Regards,
Kai