Early signs of dhamentia

Tim Simmons · 10th October 2005, 08:38 PM

I have a knife sized dha with a peg in the scabbard. I can see no obvious signs of alteration, the other side of the scabbard is fine. There are no file marks and a uniform patina on the blade tip, the balance of the weapon could not be better. What was Malay does border Siam. The blade on this is quite thin and tempered so as to have some flexability and much finer than my latter dha. Tim

Andrew · 10th October 2005, 09:03 PM

Fair enough, Tim. As I said, I'm far from certain this blade has been shortened, and you have the advantage of having it in your hand.

This tip form is uncommon, but not unknown.

I, too, favor the balance of these long-handled swords. It makes for a very "quick" feeling blade, as that much handle will usually move the center of balance back very close to the handle/blade junction.

RhysMichael · 11th October 2005, 01:50 PM

I have to join with the others in saying what a great find that is. I have seen similar hilts but never have seen that tip style or makers mark either. Its a shame Dan is not still in Thailand to find out about the mark. I have seen several dha now with the longer handles with a more dramatic curve. Andrew is the evidence now that this is mostly Laotian ?

The only one I own that is similar is this one

Again congratulations on the find and beware dha are addictive. I am sure the surgeon general will soon require warning labels on them.

Andrew · 11th October 2005, 02:05 PM

Hi JT. I still favor Thai for Tim's example. Probably Ratankosin, according to Mark. A similar one appears as #4 in the second photo in this post about an Oldman Catalog:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...97&postcount=2

Mark · 11th October 2005, 05:18 PM

How did I miss this one? It is very nice, from what I can see.

I am going to go against the tide of opinion and say that it is Burman (as in the tribe after which Burma is named). The wide fuller and floral lotus pommel say Burma to me. Compare it to this one, which I am certain is Burman based on the presence of koftgari (plus the Burmese script is a dead give-away

).

I have seen the peg in a number of scabbards, so I think that it is a normal feature, but I don't think that I have seen it together with a chape. I think Andrew is right about age. Never seen the mark, either. It looks sort of like a flower with a stem ... or maybe a latanka? Are there two marks or one?

Tim Simmons · 11th October 2005, 05:59 PM

I take it I am in then, you will let me know the password or secret knock

. This is a drawing of the mark but it might not be a good strike, looking from the handle at the bottom of the drawing using a +10 loop. I do not know if it helps. I thank you all for the reassuring comments as although not a complete stab in the dark I was a little concerned that I had spent a touch more than usual. Tim

Andrew · 11th October 2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bowditch

I am going to go against the tide of opinion and say that it is Burman (as in the tribe after which Burma is named). The wide fuller and floral lotus pommel say Burma to me. Compare it to this one, which I am certain is Burman based on the presence of koftgari (plus the Burmese script is a dead give-away

).

Hi Mark.

Notice I hedged my bets on the pommel?

Have we seen many Burman swords with handles of this length? I know this is not a "cast in stone" feature, but lotus-bud pommels do appear on Thai swords as well, and if the handle was shorter and three-sectioned like your example, you'd have complete agreement from me. Perhaps an example of cross-polination?

The struck marks at the forte are interesting. I suspect a smith's mark (no great guess).

Andrew

Tim Simmons · 11th October 2005, 09:47 PM

This is like one of those difficult viewings of Congo artifacts, where differences are detectable but who exactly, when in areas with cultural similarities has the dominant influence, especially when you consider what was Burma, Malay and Siam all share borders on the peninsula. Might one have to look at even smaller group affiliation such as clans which can be surprisingly dispersed? When I think about it there is less written about this area of weapons than Africa. Tim

10th October 2005, 08:38 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,856	I have a knife sized dha with a peg in the scabbard. I can see no obvious signs of alteration, the other side of the scabbard is fine. There are no file marks and a uniform patina on the blade tip, the balance of the weapon could not be better. What was Malay does border Siam. The blade on this is quite thin and tempered so as to have some flexability and much finer than my latter dha. Tim Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 10th October 2005 at 08:51 PM.

11th October 2005, 05:18 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Dreck! How did I miss this one? It is very nice, from what I can see. I am going to go against the tide of opinion and say that it is Burman (as in the tribe after which Burma is named). The wide fuller and floral lotus pommel say Burma to me. Compare it to this one, which I am certain is Burman based on the presence of koftgari (plus the Burmese script is a dead give-away ). I have seen the peg in a number of scabbards, so I think that it is a normal feature, but I don't think that I have seen it together with a chape. I think Andrew is right about age. Never seen the mark, either. It looks sort of like a flower with a stem ... or maybe a latanka? Are there two marks or one?

11th October 2005, 05:59 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,856	I take it I am in then, you will let me know the password or secret knock . This is a drawing of the mark but it might not be a good strike, looking from the handle at the bottom of the drawing using a +10 loop. I do not know if it helps. I thank you all for the reassuring comments as although not a complete stab in the dark I was a little concerned that I had spent a touch more than usual. Tim Attached Images

10th October 2005, 09:03 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Fair enough, Tim. As I said, I'm far from certain this blade has been shortened, and you have the advantage of having it in your hand. This tip form is uncommon, but not unknown. I, too, favor the balance of these long-handled swords. It makes for a very "quick" feeling blade, as that much handle will usually move the center of balance back very close to the handle/blade junction.

11th October 2005, 01:50 PM	#3
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	I have to join with the others in saying what a great find that is. I have seen similar hilts but never have seen that tip style or makers mark either. Its a shame Dan is not still in Thailand to find out about the mark. I have seen several dha now with the longer handles with a more dramatic curve. Andrew is the evidence now that this is mostly Laotian ? The only one I own that is similar is this one Again congratulations on the find and beware dha are addictive. I am sure the surgeon general will soon require warning labels on them.

11th October 2005, 02:05 PM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Hi JT. I still favor Thai for Tim's example. Probably Ratankosin, according to Mark. A similar one appears as #4 in the second photo in this post about an Oldman Catalog: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...97&postcount=2

11th October 2005, 09:47 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,856	This is like one of those difficult viewings of Congo artifacts, where differences are detectable but who exactly, when in areas with cultural similarities has the dominant influence, especially when you consider what was Burma, Malay and Siam all share borders on the peninsula. Might one have to look at even smaller group affiliation such as clans which can be surprisingly dispersed? When I think about it there is less written about this area of weapons than Africa. Tim