rare medieval weapon against heavy Armour.

[cornelistromp]

thanks for the explanation, a small attempt to convince you.

I agree that this tool is not likely to be developed as a weapon but exceptionally be used so.

re: wooden or steel handle?
if we take the manuscript as an example, here the artist has made 2 drawings, where all the steel/metal is gray colored (armour blades helmet eso) and also can be seen that the shaft of pole weapons is in a wood-tone color, fe see the Swiss voulge on the right drawing you can clearly see the difference between metal and wood!

The grip of the sword is with detailed windings clearly visible as a sword grip with some kind of binding.

However the big squareshaped! handle of the tool is gray colored! why not as the polearmshafts in the wood-tone color ?
...............because it is not wood.

best,
jasper

[Andi]

Does someone know the German or its historic name of the tool?

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Andi

Does someone know the German or its historic name of the tool?

yes I think so
in the book Speculum Humanae salvation (a mediëval mirror) above the drawing can be read
sangoz occidit sexcetos vios cu vome
this must be read in latin as:
sangoz occidit sexce(n)tos vi(r)os cu(m) vom(er)e this means something like
sangoz killed 600 men with a ???goad??? (ploughshare)

In the old german historic translations vomere is translated as plōgaz or plōguz

best,
jasper

[fearn]

Okay, I'll take your word for it, although I think strong faith is misplaced. I'd still suggest swinging something like that against a hard target before believing the artwork uncritically (or at least, pick up a rectangular piece of metal about the same size and swing it against a hard target. An iron stake should do as a crude replica).

Also remember the Biblical story of Samson killing a thousand men with "the jawbone of a donkey" (Judges 15:16). It's not inconceivable that someone borrowed the idea of killing a massive number of enemies with an improbable implement and restated it in Medieval times.

Best,

F

[Richard Furrer]

Such large steel tool need not weigh much...I guess that glaive was about five pounds.
The gaive from that Bible was reproduced by a friend not long ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JevwURrwQA

Michael is a good smith and so were those in Medieval Europe. By putting just enough metal in just the right places I think you would be amazed ay how large you can go and still be useful.

Ric

[fearn]

I should point out that most one-handed swords (steel and bronze) way no more than about a kilogram. Five pounds is reasonable for a two-handed weapon, but that's not what is shown. As for the video, he's not the first to reproduce the Maciejowski glaive. Museum Replicas had an edition about a decade ago, and it was judged extremely awkward and tip heavy.

The point here is that when most warriors go for kilogram-scale single-handed weapons, regardless of culture, regardless even of metal used, a double-weight weapon doesn't immediately jump out as a massive improvement

Just to dump some more sand in the gears, I'd like to point out that the plow (pflug) is one of the fundamental stances in European sword fighting, one that probably will look very familiar (http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm). If a swordsman says "the Plow" is his favorite and he's killed many men with it, what's an artist to make of that? Paint a warrior with a plowshare in his hand, perhaps?

Best,

F

[Richard Furrer]

Fearn,
I believe the fourth picture in the Bible posted above is a two handed sword...which is what Michael was reproducing.

As to a weapons awkwardness:
It often comes down to the particular piece and who made the item. As they are hand made items they vary and a vast majority of the particulars of the item depends on the skill and understanding of the person who made it.
A tool made for farm use may not lend itself to the battlefield in our mind, but be sure that the farmer who harvests with the tool can harvest whatever may be the crop....veg or meat.

I have never held a Museum Replicas piece so I can not comment on what they make.

Is your point that there may be a discrepancy between art and reality?

Ric