A Nice Pakayun...and questions!

Maurice · 7th March 2013, 12:00 PM

Congratulations with this nice pakayun Charles..... It's surely a beauty!

Maurice

VANDOO · 7th March 2013, 07:52 PM

MOST EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE IN TRADITIONAL MURUT FORM SCABBARD DECORATIONS ECT. THE BLADE IS IN THE PROPER SHAPE BUT THE FANCY ENGRAVING ON THE BLADE IS NEW TO ME. I DO SEEM TO REMEMBER SEEING FULLERS ON A BLADE AND PERHAPS SOME MARKS ON A BLADE SPINE. THE BANDS ON THE SCABBARD ARE USUALLY MADE FROM SOMETHING LIKE A TIN CAN NOT COPPER.
UNFORTUNATELY I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MURUT BELIEFS OR TAILSMANIC MARKINGS BUT AM SURE ALL DESIGNS HAD SOME TRIBAL MEANING WHICH MAY STILL BE KNOWN OR NOT.?
I SUSPECT THIS SWORD WAS CUSTOM MADE EITHER BY COMMISION OF THE OWNER OR PERHAPS FOR A GIFT OR PRESENTATION. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN QUITE IMPRESSIVE WHEN NEW (NOT THAT IT ISN'T NOW

) IMAGINE IT WITH THE BRASS SHINING LIKE GOLD AND THE COPPER BANDS BLAZING RED AGAINST THE BLACK WOOD WITH THE STARK AND COMPLETE LIME INFILL AND A FRESH BELT OR CORD.

SOME GUYS HAVE ALL THE LUCK AND GET DA GOOD STUFF

CharlesS · 7th March 2013, 09:41 PM

I see many similarities with this one...including fullering, the scabbard style, etc.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2992

VVV · 8th March 2013, 06:20 AM

Here are some features from mine with a "Shelford-style hilt" as a comparison of motifs on the really old ones.

Michael

paolo · 8th March 2013, 02:20 PM

He CharlesS http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2992 in mine. Sure there are similarities, but the blade (laminated but with a lesser visible pattern) haven't decorations on the spine and on the sides, and the scabbard is less gorgeous. Your one seems to me, as wrote VANDOO, a presentation sword, however really a beauty.
Paolo

VANDOO · 8th March 2013, 06:53 PM

NOW I HAVE SEEN TWO WITH DECORATIVE ENGRAVING AT THE FORTE OF THE BLADE. THIS WOULD MAKE ME THINK SOMEONE WAS MAKEING THESE IN THE SAME AREA AND TIME RANGE. I SUSPECT THEY ARE FEW IN NUMBERS CONSIDERING THE MAJORITY I HAVE SEEN DID NOT HAVE THIS. PERHAPS THIS WAS BECAUSE OF COST OR THEY WERE LIMITED AT THE SOURCE AS PRESENTATION PIECES ONLY TO BE GIVEN ON SPECIAL OCCASIONS TO PEOPLE OF HIGH STATUS. AS TO WHO HAD THEM MADE MURUT OR OUTSIDERS IS HARD TO SAY BUT I PERSONALLY THINK THESE TWO DESIGNS SHOW OUTSIDE INFLUENCE BEYOND BORNEO. JUST A GUT FEELING.

BUT THE SWORDS LOOK TO HAVE BEEN MADE IN BORNEO AND THE DESIGNS ON THE SPINE ARE TRADITIONAL ENOUGH.
DECORATED BLADES ARE NOT TOO UNCOMMON IN BORNEO ON THE MANDAU OR JIMPUL SO WHY NOT ON THE PAKAYUN PERHAPS ONE WITH THE PIERCED BLADE WITH BRASS OR SILVER INSERTS MAY SHOW UP.

AS TOO THE IRON STRAPS ON SCABBARDS THE THICKNESS OF THE STRAPS WAS ABOUT THE SAME AS AN OLD CAN NOT NECESSARLY MADE OF ONE.

VVV A PICTURE OF THE POMMEL ON YOUR EXAMPLE WOULD BE NICE I HAVE ONLY SEEN ONE OR TWO OF THAT SIMULAR FORM.

Maurice · 8th March 2013, 07:43 PM

Just for comparison!
Mine is by far as in mint condition as Charles's pakayun (scabbardtip and scabbardmouth are damaged, carrying belt is missing and ratan is broken at the handle).
The blade also has two fullers and the handle is quite different as usual and has wonderfull patina, which made me kept this one over several other pakayuns I once owned.

Maurice

8th March 2013, 06:20 AM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here are some features from mine with a "Shelford-style hilt" as a comparison of motifs on the really old ones. Michael Attached Images

8th March 2013, 07:43 PM	#7
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Just for comparison! Mine is by far as in mint condition as Charles's pakayun (scabbardtip and scabbardmouth are damaged, carrying belt is missing and ratan is broken at the handle). The blade also has two fullers and the handle is quite different as usual and has wonderfull patina, which made me kept this one over several other pakayuns I once owned. Maurice Attached Images

7th March 2013, 12:00 PM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Congratulations with this nice pakayun Charles..... It's surely a beauty! Maurice

7th March 2013, 07:52 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MOST EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE IN TRADITIONAL MURUT FORM SCABBARD DECORATIONS ECT. THE BLADE IS IN THE PROPER SHAPE BUT THE FANCY ENGRAVING ON THE BLADE IS NEW TO ME. I DO SEEM TO REMEMBER SEEING FULLERS ON A BLADE AND PERHAPS SOME MARKS ON A BLADE SPINE. THE BANDS ON THE SCABBARD ARE USUALLY MADE FROM SOMETHING LIKE A TIN CAN NOT COPPER. UNFORTUNATELY I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MURUT BELIEFS OR TAILSMANIC MARKINGS BUT AM SURE ALL DESIGNS HAD SOME TRIBAL MEANING WHICH MAY STILL BE KNOWN OR NOT.? I SUSPECT THIS SWORD WAS CUSTOM MADE EITHER BY COMMISION OF THE OWNER OR PERHAPS FOR A GIFT OR PRESENTATION. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN QUITE IMPRESSIVE WHEN NEW (NOT THAT IT ISN'T NOW ) IMAGINE IT WITH THE BRASS SHINING LIKE GOLD AND THE COPPER BANDS BLAZING RED AGAINST THE BLACK WOOD WITH THE STARK AND COMPLETE LIME INFILL AND A FRESH BELT OR CORD. SOME GUYS HAVE ALL THE LUCK AND GET DA GOOD STUFF

7th March 2013, 09:41 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	I see many similarities with this one...including fullering, the scabbard style, etc. http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2992

8th March 2013, 02:20 PM	#5
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	He CharlesS http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2992 in mine. Sure there are similarities, but the blade (laminated but with a lesser visible pattern) haven't decorations on the spine and on the sides, and the scabbard is less gorgeous. Your one seems to me, as wrote VANDOO, a presentation sword, however really a beauty. Paolo

8th March 2013, 06:53 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NOW I HAVE SEEN TWO WITH DECORATIVE ENGRAVING AT THE FORTE OF THE BLADE. THIS WOULD MAKE ME THINK SOMEONE WAS MAKEING THESE IN THE SAME AREA AND TIME RANGE. I SUSPECT THEY ARE FEW IN NUMBERS CONSIDERING THE MAJORITY I HAVE SEEN DID NOT HAVE THIS. PERHAPS THIS WAS BECAUSE OF COST OR THEY WERE LIMITED AT THE SOURCE AS PRESENTATION PIECES ONLY TO BE GIVEN ON SPECIAL OCCASIONS TO PEOPLE OF HIGH STATUS. AS TO WHO HAD THEM MADE MURUT OR OUTSIDERS IS HARD TO SAY BUT I PERSONALLY THINK THESE TWO DESIGNS SHOW OUTSIDE INFLUENCE BEYOND BORNEO. JUST A GUT FEELING. BUT THE SWORDS LOOK TO HAVE BEEN MADE IN BORNEO AND THE DESIGNS ON THE SPINE ARE TRADITIONAL ENOUGH. DECORATED BLADES ARE NOT TOO UNCOMMON IN BORNEO ON THE MANDAU OR JIMPUL SO WHY NOT ON THE PAKAYUN PERHAPS ONE WITH THE PIERCED BLADE WITH BRASS OR SILVER INSERTS MAY SHOW UP. AS TOO THE IRON STRAPS ON SCABBARDS THE THICKNESS OF THE STRAPS WAS ABOUT THE SAME AS AN OLD CAN NOT NECESSARLY MADE OF ONE. VVV A PICTURE OF THE POMMEL ON YOUR EXAMPLE WOULD BE NICE I HAVE ONLY SEEN ONE OR TWO OF THAT SIMULAR FORM.