Chinese? matchlock for comments

Mefidk · 27th February 2013, 05:45 AM

Thanks for the reply estcrh

Unfortunately I don't have a picture of the breech end of the barrel from the end, just this attached picture from the side. However, it is the sealed shut type with no discernable markings (although you can see the corrosion which might have obliterated any that were once there).

Rich · 27th February 2013, 06:38 AM

This definitely is not my area, but I've handled a lot of Japanese matchlocks over the years having seen them at Japanese sword shows. IMHO, this doesn't look Japanese or Chinese to me. It looks more Afganistan or one of the more Arabic regions. Also doesn't look authentically old, more like an aged tourista.
I could be totally wrong and off base, if so, just chalk it up to an old fart showing his ignorance.

Rich
=========
The Japanese Sword Index
http://japaneseswordindex.com

pbleed · 28th February 2013, 03:15 AM

Friends,
This is an interesting gun. I recommend taking at look at the matchlocks shown in Stone's glossary. I suggest that it is "south" Chinese or Indo-chinese. A neat piece.
Peter

trenchwarfare · 28th February 2013, 06:48 AM

Definitely Chinese/Formosa, to Southeast Asia. Very nice. The hole in the grip, could be for a sling swivel of sorts. The Southeast Asian guns, don't have provision for a rammer.

David R · 28th February 2013, 01:05 PM

It looks pretty "right" to me, Chinese matchlocks always look a bit odd and put together. I think it is part of the traditional disdain of the Chinese for military stuff.

Mefidk · 28th February 2013, 04:52 PM

Thanks for the replies folks

Exactly what sort of gun it is I am not 100% sure, but it seems that there is broad agreement about the general region.

I am also pretty certain that this is not a 'new' gun, even the woodwork is not new, although newer than the barrel. It has been important enough for someone to repair the stock which had split and strengthen the repair with a screw - you can see it behind the trigger. The barrel shows signs of this being fired (a lot), and the corrosion that you can see is associated with this or is primarily under the barrel rings, especially the large steel one. When I got it there was a lot of active rust under there. The matchlock mechanism also shows signs of wear, at least suggesting that the mechanism has also been used a lot.

I guess this is not military, at least organised military since it does not have any markings, but it really is just a guess.

ward · 28th February 2013, 09:44 PM

The piece is right. China or the surrounding area is the location with that lock and form of stock. Age is a question. Guess from pics would be 19th century. A very similar form with a detachable lock was used by the montanyards and other various tribes in vietnam,annam,etc. Those particular ones were still in use during the vietnamese war and afterwards. Nice example.

trenchwarfare · 1st March 2013, 01:39 AM

The percussion gun in this lot, is of unknown origin. The flinters are all from Southeast Asia. Sorry for the far away shot. Couldn't get the closeup to upload.

Gavin Nugent · 2nd March 2013, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

The piece is right. China or the surrounding area is the location with that lock and form of stock. Age is a question. Guess from pics would be 19th century. A very similar form with a detachable lock was used by the montanyards and other various tribes in vietnam,annam,etc. Those particular ones were still in use during the vietnamese war and afterwards. Nice example.

To support what is noted by Ward, there are numerous images available on the net of Chinese soldiers with this form of gun. With the Chinese being so well spread throughout SEA and island areas, it may have been picked up anywhere but the form is Chinese. Osprey publications have drawings of similar, taken from photographic evidence.

Gavin

27th February 2013, 05:45 AM	#1
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thanks for the reply estcrh Unfortunately I don't have a picture of the breech end of the barrel from the end, just this attached picture from the side. However, it is the sealed shut type with no discernable markings (although you can see the corrosion which might have obliterated any that were once there). Attached Images

28th February 2013, 09:44 PM	#7
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	rifle The piece is right. China or the surrounding area is the location with that lock and form of stock. Age is a question. Guess from pics would be 19th century. A very similar form with a detachable lock was used by the montanyards and other various tribes in vietnam,annam,etc. Those particular ones were still in use during the vietnamese war and afterwards. Nice example.

1st March 2013, 01:39 AM	#8
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	The percussion gun in this lot, is of unknown origin. The flinters are all from Southeast Asia. Sorry for the far away shot. Couldn't get the closeup to upload. Attached Images

27th February 2013, 06:38 AM	#2
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	This definitely is not my area, but I've handled a lot of Japanese matchlocks over the years having seen them at Japanese sword shows. IMHO, this doesn't look Japanese or Chinese to me. It looks more Afganistan or one of the more Arabic regions. Also doesn't look authentically old, more like an aged tourista. I could be totally wrong and off base, if so, just chalk it up to an old fart showing his ignorance. Rich ========= The Japanese Sword Index http://japaneseswordindex.com

28th February 2013, 03:15 AM	#3
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 89	Friends, This is an interesting gun. I recommend taking at look at the matchlocks shown in Stone's glossary. I suggest that it is "south" Chinese or Indo-chinese. A neat piece. Peter

28th February 2013, 06:48 AM	#4
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Definitely Chinese/Formosa, to Southeast Asia. Very nice. The hole in the grip, could be for a sling swivel of sorts. The Southeast Asian guns, don't have provision for a rammer.

28th February 2013, 01:05 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,135	It looks pretty "right" to me, Chinese matchlocks always look a bit odd and put together. I think it is part of the traditional disdain of the Chinese for military stuff.

28th February 2013, 04:52 PM	#6
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thanks for the replies folks Exactly what sort of gun it is I am not 100% sure, but it seems that there is broad agreement about the general region. I am also pretty certain that this is not a 'new' gun, even the woodwork is not new, although newer than the barrel. It has been important enough for someone to repair the stock which had split and strengthen the repair with a screw - you can see it behind the trigger. The barrel shows signs of this being fired (a lot), and the corrosion that you can see is associated with this or is primarily under the barrel rings, especially the large steel one. When I got it there was a lot of active rust under there. The matchlock mechanism also shows signs of wear, at least suggesting that the mechanism has also been used a lot. I guess this is not military, at least organised military since it does not have any markings, but it really is just a guess.