Keris from east or west java ?

A. G. Maisey · 22nd February 2013, 02:40 AM

Henk, as I have already said:- "from the photos I cannot give a supportable opinion", thus what I am saying now is only based on an overall impression, to be relatively certain I would need to handle it. If I handled it I'd be looking at things like the way the gandar was fitted to the atasan, the cross section and weight of the gandar, the way the sculpting of the atasan had been done, how thick the atasan was, how the inside of the atasan was finished --- all detail, detail, detail, and things that simply cannot be seen from photos. Similarly with the hilt, I'd be looking to see if it fitted a more or less standard Solo blak, I'd be looking at the form from front and rear, I'd be looking at the cecekan.

My overall impression was formed because the scabbard has a sort of a clumsy appearance, it seems not to flow very well, almost as if the maker was struggling to produce a copy of something, rather than working from an ingrained pattern in his own head. Additionally, it is quite unusual to find fairly recent Solo wrongkos that are not fitted with a pendok. Much older Solo wrongkos usually come with a pendok too. An all wood gandar without covering is not usual with this form of wrongko.

Jean · 22nd February 2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Additionally, it is quite unusual to find fairly recent Solo wrongkos that are not fitted with a pendok. Much older Solo wrongkos usually come with a pendok too. An all wood gandar without covering is not usual with this form of wrongko.

I fully agree with Alan, the presence of a pendok or not is a very distinctive indicator of the origin of the sheath. And accordingly the gayaman sheaths from East Java have a thicker gandar (and often atasan) than those from Solo.

Regards

Henk · 22nd February 2013, 09:57 AM

I realize completely Alan that giving an opinion from pictures is very hard. Still, just like you i had a feeling of hestitation. You're experience is much greater than the experience of the most of us.
I really appreciate that despite you couldn't give a supportable opinion you gave your opinion from what you notices from the pictures. Now i know why i hestitated and what i saw. just like you i know that we cann't handle it and look at the details.

I learned today and for that i'm grateful.

22nd February 2013, 02:40 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Henk, as I have already said:- "from the photos I cannot give a supportable opinion", thus what I am saying now is only based on an overall impression, to be relatively certain I would need to handle it. If I handled it I'd be looking at things like the way the gandar was fitted to the atasan, the cross section and weight of the gandar, the way the sculpting of the atasan had been done, how thick the atasan was, how the inside of the atasan was finished --- all detail, detail, detail, and things that simply cannot be seen from photos. Similarly with the hilt, I'd be looking to see if it fitted a more or less standard Solo blak, I'd be looking at the form from front and rear, I'd be looking at the cecekan. My overall impression was formed because the scabbard has a sort of a clumsy appearance, it seems not to flow very well, almost as if the maker was struggling to produce a copy of something, rather than working from an ingrained pattern in his own head. Additionally, it is quite unusual to find fairly recent Solo wrongkos that are not fitted with a pendok. Much older Solo wrongkos usually come with a pendok too. An all wood gandar without covering is not usual with this form of wrongko.

22nd February 2013, 09:57 AM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I realize completely Alan that giving an opinion from pictures is very hard. Still, just like you i had a feeling of hestitation. You're experience is much greater than the experience of the most of us. I really appreciate that despite you couldn't give a supportable opinion you gave your opinion from what you notices from the pictures. Now i know why i hestitated and what i saw. just like you i know that we cann't handle it and look at the details. I learned today and for that i'm grateful.