Please help ID a Spadroon

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

E B E E N S G R I B ...

Meaning ?

[Richard G]

Two little oddities I'd like to point out:-
1, It is not too difficult to see a grenade in the hilt, but as far as I am aware steel hilted English weapons of this time were pretty well restricted to light infantry or rifle regiments. Brass (gilt) would have been more normal.
2, The inscriptions on the forte are inscribed whereas the turks head etc. are etched. I have seen etching scribed for greater detail but this seems half and half.
Regards
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent points Richard. In looking at the hilt, it is also interesting that the groupings of five 'beads' often found on the crossguard and knuckleguard are absent. I just know Ive seen this device in the crossguard somewhere, but as yet have not found it, despite of course being seemingly a grenade.
While it remains tempting to consider this French, who as noted were using this type hilt and blade in this time, the shape of the pommel, sword knot ring at top of knuckleguard and reeded ivory grip seem profoundly English.
In looking at the blade, it is tempting to regard this blade motif as of the 'Caissagnard' fashion, a noted French location where blades apparantly were decorated with 'magical' motif which often included the 'blackamoor' head (Boutell, 1931), a heraldic term for Turks head. These designs, along with certain Christian talismanic devices such as the latticework and invocational or patriotic mottos from Hungarian motifs seem to have been adopted in Solingen for exported blades in the 18th century. Actually the Turks head seen on this example matches exactly a blade on a French sword, but these blades were of course often from Solingen, much as were English blades.

The indecipherable words in the inscription seem to correspond to similarly lettered words used in a talismanic sense in what is typically associated with devices known as the 'Transylvanian knot' in Hungary (in my earlier post I had misnoted this as the Hungarian knot). These are quite likely to be acrostics rather than actual words similar to inscriptions on many early European blades which are invocational either magically or religiously.

With British officers of these times, they had wide latitude as far as regulations in military fashion, and could have acquired swords outside the standards typically observed. Also, and I may be off base, but it seems that ebony and dark grips were often keenly favored on French officers swords, though obviously not without exceptions, and I think that has me still favoring English.

[Richard G]

Jim,
I agree, I think many would describe this as an "unusual" English hilt.

The blade is a little more problematic. On an English sword of this era (even with a German blade) I think it would have been more usual for the forte to have been reserved for the makers or retailers name or trademark, and "Pro Patria" etc. to be on the middle of the blade. Also I struggle to make any sense of "E B E E N S G R I B".

This blade almost looks as if made for wholesale with an etched Turks head etc. and the forte left deliberately blank to be available for inscription by the buyer.

I don't think it is a fake, or anything like that, but it does have these anomalies.
Regards
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Jim,
I agree, I think many would describe this as an "unusual" English hilt.

The blade is a little more problematic. On an English sword of this era (even with a German blade) I think it would have been more usual for the forte to have been reserved for the makers or retailers name or trademark, and "Pro Patria" etc. to be on the middle of the blade. Also I struggle to make any sense of "E B E E N S G R I B".

This blade almost looks as if made for wholesale with an etched Turks head etc. and the forte left deliberately blank to be available for inscription by the buyer.

I don't think it is a fake, or anything like that, but it does have these anomalies.
Regards
Richard

Absolutely Richard! and I agree that a Solingen blade made for the English market would be probably left open at the forte as you suggest. There do not seem to be specific guidelines for these practices however, and actually the Solingen makers catered with certain degrees of unique styling and features for various markets. The popularity of the fashionable hussars of East Europe during the latter 18th century is well established, and much of the decorative motif of the blades of thier swords were much admired by fashion conscious officers.
As noted, this exact image of the 'Turk' head is seen in the book on French blades, and the 'Transylvanian' style motto may suggest the blade was likely Solingen produced for Continental use, and may have gotten to England through any number of ways. Naturally it is virtually impossible to determine exactly which situation or circumstance might account for this.

These kind of situations are even more complex with officers in colonial regions who have paired native hilts with regulation blades, or vice versa such as in India, Arabia and North Africa. Basically, blade and hilt are quite separate entities, and it is always a challenge to try to classify these kinds of hybrids. I had a sabre with one of these strangely lettered, basically it seems indecipherable, inscriptions, actually almost identical to the Transylvanian inscriptions I noted. It was identified as a Hungarian sabre 18th century with Ottoman style hilt. It turned out to be Arab, probably Bedouin, and probably mounted 19th century. When I asked about what the words, which seemed Hungarian, meant, I was told bluntly, nothing, it cannot be translated.

I think its a very nice sword, and the 'anomaly' of it is what gives it its compelling charm, and the absolute wonder of these weapons is often the mysteries they hold

[fernando]

This is the interpretation from a most experienced local collector/historian:


One side of the blade says PRO-PATRIA and the other says DE FENSGRIBI PATELAN.
On the blade spine, which the owner forgot to mention, it says EX LIBERALI DONO D.F. GOTTENBUSCH 1798.
The guy in the blade etching is a hussard, with his typical cap.
Potentialy this sword was made in Hungary and sold to a German, in service in Italy.