Yemeni Sayfs? Omani Kattaras?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

This sword has now arrived, and I can make further comment to what I had suggested above.
1.The skin used for the drag is not goat in my opinion, and could very well be lion as was suggested by the seller, as the remaining hair is quite thick. ....not like goat hair at all, which is much finer.
2.The fitting of scabbard to hilt is the same method as in Swedegreen's swords.....wooden tongue sliding inside the silver dressing of the hilt.
3. The hilt itself is impossible to grip securely so I would have thought that there was originally some sort of covering. Unless the users hands were VERY small the sword would slip easily in use.

Other than the above observations, the whole shows good age, and IMHO has not been artificially aged in any way... Why would one cover the scabbard with skin and then rub most of the hair off??

Regards Stu

Salaams. The Yemeni Sword. (Long Hilt.)

This sword has nothing to do with the Yemeni items tuned up with backyard hilts to sell to tourists. That is not to say that it isn't a sword that tourists buy since many are sitting in Muscats Muttrah souk and being bought by tourists... The two, however, belong to different kettles of fish.

This sword which is related to the Ottoman type in the Istanbul Military Museum (thus Mamluke and Abbassiid) is attributed to Yemeni style of metalic longhilt in the general family of Red Sea Variants I have mentioned many times previously. It appears as a leftover copied design from Ottoman garrisons into the Yemeni armouries (probably "Askeri" equivalent palace guard or militia swords) I would suggest that these belong in the southern part of what is now Saudi Arabia but was Yemen pre about 1920. They ''seem'' to be late copies perhaps mid 18th to mid 19th C going by the blades and hilt finish. Being likely contenders of Yemeni manufacture I would suspect Hadramaut as the blade construction point... or even the other side of the water in Sudan or Ethiopia even? The blade style could conceivably have been supplied completely from late Ottoman sources. There is one picture of a man holding one such blade below... and that is on an Ottoman ~ Mamluke Hilt. Does your blade also compare with that?

They may be distantly related to the Wallace style but that is a huge step and further they may have some bearing upon the Omani longhilts both in the curved ( The Omani Kattara) and straight (The Omani Sayf) variety of blades now correctly discussed under their own separate banners.

I have seen several rehilted Ethiopian (German) blades on these hilts and have to report that most blades arrive into Muscat Souk without scabbards from Sanaa. The opener pictures at #1 puts that right immediately and the weapons can be seen as made deliberately as one unit along with the scabbard style. The blades in the Yemeni versions are not flexible other than a few inches either way.

The skin may be goat. It may also be wolf... which is far more likely as there was little credibility in decorating a scabbard with a goat piece. Wolf is the more likely from the talismanic viewpoint.

The hilt as you point out is far too thin to have no cover on it and the metal, being iron, would need to be covered since it attracts evil.

If my theory is correct these are indeed a separate breed of Sword and since they were probably militia weapons they are thus likely to be swords in the proper sense and this fact is firmly supported by the Istanbul and Yemeni museum pictures.

More interestingly they may be the trigger that influenced the design style in what I have earmarked as 18/19th C Omani Kattara and Sayf variants on long hilts since that region (specifically) was closely linked to sea trade with Muscat-Zanzibar and it was from Oman that they took their design for one of their Jambias (from either the Muscat and / or The Royal Khanjar style) in what I believe was the same period about 1744 to 1850.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Salaams Ibrahiim,
The blade does NOT resemble that shown above. The single SHALLOW fuller more resembles that in Swedegreen's pic at #1 (top sword). The one in the above pic appears deep and narrow rather than broad and shallow.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Salaams Ibrahiim,
The blade does NOT resemble that shown above. The single SHALLOW fuller more resembles that in Swedegreen's pic at #1 (top sword). The one in the above pic appears deep and narrow rather than broad and shallow.
Stu

Salaams, It would be an advantage to show the blade would it not? I mean deep and shallow, broad and narrow are hardly indicative when a picture would be highly beneficial.. Do you think it looks like this one (The long hilted Yemeni Sword ) ?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams, It would be an advantage to show the blade would it not? I mean deep and shallow, broad and narrow are hardly indicative when a picture would be highly beneficial.. Do you think it looks like this one (The long hilted Yemeni Sword ) ?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Here is a pic of the fuller. The blade is 41mm (1 5/8") wide at the hilt and 5mm (3/16") thick. Flexibility is as one would expect for a combat sword.
Regards Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams. Well we are nearly there... can you show the entire blade so that normal Forum inspection may be made and so the length of the fuller and blade tip etc. can be viewed ?

I'm not sure what you are implying with your flexibility statement ...For example; Are you saying that because it's flexible it makes it a combat sword? or its lack of flexibility? How much flex does it have about 2inch or a more full 90 degrees? These are normally quite stiff blades with a few inches of flex not more.

Personally I think that this is a separate Yemeni breed and that it was a combat sword, however, I think we first have to decide what level of flexibility these swords have and in denoting what the essential blade parameters are before embarking on that equation. What you may have is a Red Sea blade stuck on a Yemeni Hilt.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams. Well we are nearly there... can you show the entire blade so that normal Forum inspection may be made and so the length of the fuller and blade tip etc. can be viewed ?

I'm not sure what you are implying with your flexibility statement ...For example; Are you saying that because it's flexible it makes it a combat sword? or its lack of flexibility? How much flex does it have about 2inch or a more full 90 degrees? These are normally quite stiff blades with a few inches of flex not more.

Personally I think that this is a separate Yemeni breed and that it was a combat sword, however, I think we first have to decide what level of flexibility these swords have and in denoting what the essential blade parameters are before embarking on that equation. What you may have is a Red Sea blade stuck on a Yemeni Hilt.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

The blade is, as I said, what one would expect from a "combat" blade---about 2"....certainly not something that would wave around in combat. Your comment about 90 degrees suggests to me something so flimsy that it would be next to useless for fighting.
Attached is a full length pic of the blade. The fuller tapers out to almost nothing about 2" back from the tip. As you can see, the tip of the double edged blade has probably been reshaped at some stage in its life, perhaps due to chipping. I am not sure if I should have this reshaped, or leave it as it is.
As an aside to the blade, I attach a further pic of the hilt. On investigation, I found that the silver collar had slipped up and was covering further hilt decoration. The blade now fits the scabbard correctly.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

The blade is, as I said, what one would expect from a "combat" blade---about 2"....certainly not something that would wave around in combat. Your comment about 90 degrees suggests to me something so flimsy that it would be next to useless for fighting.
Attached is a full length pic of the blade. The fuller tapers out to almost nothing about 2" back from the tip. As you can see, the tip of the double edged blade has probably been reshaped at some stage in its life, perhaps due to chipping. I am not sure if I should have this reshaped, or leave it as it is.
As an aside to the blade, I attach a further pic of the hilt. On investigation, I found that the silver collar had slipped up and was covering further hilt decoration. The blade now fits the scabbard correctly.

Salaams kahnjar1 Yes you say that and whereas I agree completely that the stiff blade format we see here is a fighting blade in the same way that I agree the Omani Battle Sword is also...and conversely the Omani Sayf Dancing blade is not... I have to say that others will come in and say blade flexibility owes nothing to fighting prowess as a sword necessarily...

My example would be the owner of the Shotley Bridge factory who attended an exhibition with a blade furled up inside his top hat and astonished onlookers when he unleashed it before their very eyes! Having handled a lot of these swords I have to say that they are all in the region of stiff 2 inch or so flexibility and in the fighting sword frame...though I havent seen a shield ? presumably a buckler since these are spatulate tipped chopping action blades. I have to err caution however, since this is well outside my area of operations and nothing would surprise me ... Who knows? they could be another pageantry blade !

That said, the picture is pretty clear; This appears to be linked in style to the original broadswords in Military Museums in both Istanbul and Yemen. It is thus likely to be rooted in history to Ottoman, therefor Mamluke and Abbassiid weaponry. When this was manufactured is still open to conjecture but I suggest an 18/19th C ticket.

There is, I suggest, the likelihood of an indirect link with the style of hilt to the Omani Dancing Sayf and Omani Curved Kattara within the timeframe perhaps related to the advent of the Al Busaiidi Dynasty commencing in 1744. (or thereabouts) and caused by intensive trade between the two regions.

Note on silver collar: Not seen one of these on this style before... Do you think it belongs to the sword or the scabbard? I think the scabbard.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

The blade is, as I said, what one would expect from a "combat" blade---about 2"....certainly not something that would wave around in combat. Your comment about 90 degrees suggests to me something so flimsy that it would be next to useless for fighting.
Attached is a full length pic of the blade. The fuller tapers out to almost nothing about 2" back from the tip. As you can see, the tip of the double edged blade has probably been reshaped at some stage in its life, perhaps due to chipping. I am not sure if I should have this reshaped, or leave it as it is.
As an aside to the blade, I attach a further pic of the hilt. On investigation, I found that the silver collar had slipped up and was covering further hilt decoration. The blade now fits the scabbard correctly.

Nice piece Stu! I really like how it looks. Just leave the tip as is - adds character. It is a great blade and the scabbard is really nice with the color that it adds to the piece.

Since I've never handled one of these, I'm rather curious how one would actually use it. You described the handle as being very slippery and impossible to grip without some covering. Even if it was covered, I would imagine the balance is pretty awkward due to the lack of a pommel? I don't mean any of this in a negative way I'm genuinely curious!