New kerises: need opinions

ariel · 27th January 2013, 03:16 PM

A quick question: the warangka is made out of a single piece of bone. What kind of a cow or a buffalo bone would be big enough to carve a 5" wide x 1.5" tall x 1" thick solid piece out of i?

Sajen · 27th January 2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

A quick question: the warangka is made out of a single piece of bone. What kind of a cow or a buffalo bone would be big enough to carve a 5" wide x 1.5" tall x 1" thick solid piece out of i?

I don't think that it is carved from one single piece of bone. The hilt is already carved from two pieces. The sheath from the keris from the thread I have posted is from 4 pieces and I think that yours are also from minimum 3 pieces. Like I have written before it could be whale bone but water buffalo is possible as well. The sheath from my one is approx. 26 cm long, how long is yours?

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 27th January 2013, 05:02 PM

I think the pieces from your sheath are put together at the marked places, have a good look if this is correct.

ariel · 27th January 2013, 05:22 PM

The stem is, of course, put together. The handle too: one can even see the gap, but this is obvious: no bone would have such an angle. I am talking strictly about the warangka: I looked carefully and could not find any joints. I gave it's dimensions above. Any thoughts?

Sajen · 27th January 2013, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The stem is, of course, put together. The handle too: one can even see the gap, but this is obvious: no bone would have such an angle. I am talking strictly about the warangka: I looked carefully and could not find any joints. I gave it's dimensions above. Any thoughts?

Like I have written two times before already, most proable whale bone or less possible water buffalo but possible!

Sajen · 27th January 2013, 08:25 PM

Here some pictures from a keris which belong to a friend with a very similar sheath. He think that the material is from water buffalo bone and not so very old, maybe around the turn from 19th to 20th century.

T. Koch · 30th January 2013, 07:40 AM

I would be cautious in ascribing the origin of these bone scabbards to whales. I've been through the other thread and although it is true that whales generally have more spongiose bones (known as cetacean osteosclerosis), compared to other mammal species, it does not translate directly over into a piece of worked material of comparatively diminutive size.

It's not that I don't think it's possible that whale bone was used as keris dress material, but rather that I question the possibility of differentiating it with the naked eye. Does anyone have a historical source for the use of whale bone across the archipelago? I would love to read it and be beyond grateful to anyone who could help.

All the best, - Thor

27th January 2013, 05:02 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	I think the pieces from your sheath are put together at the marked places, have a good look if this is correct. Attached Images

27th January 2013, 08:25 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	Here some pictures from a keris which belong to a friend with a very similar sheath. He think that the material is from water buffalo bone and not so very old, maybe around the turn from 19th to 20th century. Attached Images

27th January 2013, 03:16 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	A quick question: the warangka is made out of a single piece of bone. What kind of a cow or a buffalo bone would be big enough to carve a 5" wide x 1.5" tall x 1" thick solid piece out of i?

27th January 2013, 05:22 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The stem is, of course, put together. The handle too: one can even see the gap, but this is obvious: no bone would have such an angle. I am talking strictly about the warangka: I looked carefully and could not find any joints. I gave it's dimensions above. Any thoughts?

30th January 2013, 07:40 AM	#7
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	I would be cautious in ascribing the origin of these bone scabbards to whales. I've been through the other thread and although it is true that whales generally have more spongiose bones (known as cetacean osteosclerosis), compared to other mammal species, it does not translate directly over into a piece of worked material of comparatively diminutive size. It's not that I don't think it's possible that whale bone was used as keris dress material, but rather that I question the possibility of differentiating it with the naked eye. Does anyone have a historical source for the use of whale bone across the archipelago? I would love to read it and be beyond grateful to anyone who could help. All the best, - Thor