Oddity

Rick · 27th December 2012, 09:47 PM

Well, I can't tell you much, David .

It is jumbo sized and appears to be N. Coast, Cirebon; the handle appears to be a Ganesha form .

Its purpose ?

Sajen · 27th December 2012, 10:19 PM

Hello David,

congrats, I am green with envy!

A very similar keris is pictured in "The Kris, Mystic Weapon of the Malay World" from Edward Frey on page 57, picture i. This keris has as well an Cirebon ganesha handle, the gandar has nearly the same carving as well the wrangka while the form is different, like turned around by 180 degree.
Just have taken a picture, not very good but shows it better as just a description.
Question will be, was this a "common" style by Cirebon keris or have someone copied the in the book shown keris with own fantasy?
Can you see patinanation at the wooden parts?

Regards,

Detlef

Naga Sasra · 27th December 2012, 11:54 PM

I have also seen this piece before, and believe it came out of a large quality collection in Florida. I have had the opportunity to handle it in person and can add a little to the history.
From what I know this piece has been in the above mentioned collection since 1981 and as such not a copy of the one shown in Frey's book. His book was first published in 1986 with the simular type carving not included in the book until a much later edition.
As for the wrangka being 180 degrees apart, I offer no sensable explanation, perhaps someone else can enlighten us as to the significance of the wrangka being either up or down.
Looking at the photo from the book and the one Rick posted, it looks as it could have been carved by the same carver. It would be interesting if someone could shed a little more light on this "Oddity" as it is rather uncommon and could have been carved in Cirebon on the N. Coast of Jawa or perhaps even in Madura.

Sajen · 28th December 2012, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

From what I know this piece has been in the above mentioned collection since 1981 and as such not a copy of the one shown in Frey's book. His book was first published in 1986 with the simular type carving not included in the book until a much later edition.

My edition is the third one from 2003.

Jean · 28th December 2012, 09:31 AM

Personally I would attribute this odd sheath & hilt to Madura and well post WW2. I was told by a expert seller/ collector from Surabaya (to be verified) that this particular style of Ganesha hilt originates from East Java and not Cirebon/ Northern Coast and is locally called Ganesha Kembang, see the attached specimen made from kemuning.
Regards

Rick · 28th December 2012, 07:20 PM

Well, if this is Madura work it certainly is unlike any I have seen before .
It leads me to wonder what the inspiration was for this design .

So far we have two examples of this type of carving extant; the one I have acquired and the one in Frey's book .

Why is the dress so oversized ?

Will we ever see a third example ?

Jean · 28th December 2012, 08:29 PM

I never saw any similar piece myself, but let us wait what Alan has to say about it. It should be noted that the 2 blades are very different.
This imaginative style of carving looks more likely to be Madurese than Northern Javanese to me and the hilt is an indication but I could be wrong

I attach the picture of a typical specimen of traditional Ganesha hilt atributed to Cirebon for comparison.
Regards

27th December 2012, 09:47 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Well, I can't tell you much, David . It is jumbo sized and appears to be N. Coast, Cirebon; the handle appears to be a Ganesha form . Its purpose ? Last edited by Rick; 27th December 2012 at 10:11 PM.

27th December 2012, 10:19 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Hello David, congrats, I am green with envy! A very similar keris is pictured in "The Kris, Mystic Weapon of the Malay World" from Edward Frey on page 57, picture i. This keris has as well an Cirebon ganesha handle, the gandar has nearly the same carving as well the wrangka while the form is different, like turned around by 180 degree. Just have taken a picture, not very good but shows it better as just a description. Question will be, was this a "common" style by Cirebon keris or have someone copied the in the book shown keris with own fantasy? Can you see patinanation at the wooden parts? Regards, Detlef Attached Images

28th December 2012, 09:31 AM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Personally I would attribute this odd sheath & hilt to Madura and well post WW2. I was told by a expert seller/ collector from Surabaya (to be verified) that this particular style of Ganesha hilt originates from East Java and not Cirebon/ Northern Coast and is locally called Ganesha Kembang, see the attached specimen made from kemuning. Regards Attached Images Last edited by Jean; 28th December 2012 at 02:56 PM.

28th December 2012, 08:29 PM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I never saw any similar piece myself, but let us wait what Alan has to say about it. It should be noted that the 2 blades are very different. This imaginative style of carving looks more likely to be Madurese than Northern Javanese to me and the hilt is an indication but I could be wrong I attach the picture of a typical specimen of traditional Ganesha hilt atributed to Cirebon for comparison. Regards Attached Images

27th December 2012, 11:54 PM	#3
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	I have also seen this piece before, and believe it came out of a large quality collection in Florida. I have had the opportunity to handle it in person and can add a little to the history. From what I know this piece has been in the above mentioned collection since 1981 and as such not a copy of the one shown in Frey's book. His book was first published in 1986 with the simular type carving not included in the book until a much later edition. As for the wrangka being 180 degrees apart, I offer no sensable explanation, perhaps someone else can enlighten us as to the significance of the wrangka being either up or down. Looking at the photo from the book and the one Rick posted, it looks as it could have been carved by the same carver. It would be interesting if someone could shed a little more light on this "Oddity" as it is rather uncommon and could have been carved in Cirebon on the N. Coast of Jawa or perhaps even in Madura.

28th December 2012, 07:20 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Well, if this is Madura work it certainly is unlike any I have seen before . It leads me to wonder what the inspiration was for this design . So far we have two examples of this type of carving extant; the one I have acquired and the one in Frey's book . Why is the dress so oversized ? Will we ever see a third example ?